Any real harm to using Prestone Dex-Cool in Dodge?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
@mechanicx - You said you saw gumming with Prestone AMAM and Super Tech. You can't change the subject to Dexcool, lol.



It's the same thing. they all contain 2EHA the main cause of gumming due to air entrapment. Prestone AMAM and Prestone Dexcool are the same formula.
 
Originally Posted By: mark pruett
Assuming the system was well flushed and the fluids are not mixed, would there be any real harm to running the Prestone 5/150 Extended Life Coolant (Dex-Cool Approved) in a Dodge pickup? I had my system flushed an filled, and the goons put this stuff in without my knowledge.

It supposedly meets MS 9769, which is the Chrysler HOAT coolant spec, so I'd think it was ok.



I have put dex-cool in my 1996 explorer 4.0 purchased new. I converted over at about 40k miles. Junked it with 211k on it on original waterpump and radiator. I converted my 2002 Maxima purchased new at about 40k miles. It has 148k on it and no issues. It is great as far as I am concerned
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It's the same thing. they all contain 2EHA the main cause of gumming due to air entrapment. Prestone AMAM and Prestone Dexcool are the same formula.

No it is not. Just because the same ingredients are used doesn't mean you get the same formula.

For example, we could make cookies and some may have more chocolate chips in them or less. We could make red paint and one may be brighter than the other. Etc.

So basing your opinion that Prestone AMAM and Super Tech gum because they use the same ingredients as Descool is baseless. And as I said earlier, the only time I have EVER seen Dexcool gum is when too many sealer tablets were used from the factory.
 
I don't think you know much about Dexcool and its clones and the problems they can potentially have if air gets in the system. They all have a similar level of 2EHA or they wouldn't be able to meet corrosion protection standards. I've seen Prestone AMAM gum. Just because you never seen it happen or believe there is some difference that matters between Prestone AMAM and Dexcool doesn't make it so either. Believe what you want to believe. Automakers don't agree with you either.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't think you know much about Dexcool and its clones and the problems they can potentially have if air gets in the system. They all have a similar level of 2EHA or they wouldn't be able to meet corrosion protection standards. I've seen Prestone AMAM gum. Just because you never seen it happen or believe there is some difference that matters between Prestone AMAM and Dexcool doesn't make it so either. Believe what you want to believe. Automakers don't agree with you either.

You are absolutely right that I don't know much about it because IT DOES NOT EXIST!!! I have asked you in different threads to prove it and you never do. You make a baseless assumption based on bad information. Provide me some evidence that uncontaminated Prestone AMAM or Super Tech magically gums up. Search the Internet for it. Trust me you will not find it because it doesn't happen by itself.

You will only see two kinds of pictures blaming Dexcool of anything. One being the dried-looking mud and the other being more like a clay. The dried looking one is rust and the clay is more than likely sealer tablets. GM has since cut back on the sealer tablets. I'll talk about rust later.

Automotive coolant does 3 things and those are provide boil over protection, provide freeze protection, and protect cooling system components. On average, 95% of coolant is ethylene glycol which mixed with water provides the boil over and freeze protections. The remaining 5% of coolant are the additives providing cooling system protection to metals, gaskets, and seals.

Automotive makers not agreeing me? You will have to explain then why GM has been using Dexcool now for 16 years and Ford is going to OAT. Let me answer that for you. Because it works! Anyone believing Prestone, Peak, the store brands, GM, Ford, etc. using and selling OAT coolants have some sort of conspiracy to ruin cooling systems needs help.

As for your air in the cooling system argument, ANY coolant getting low enough will have air in the system and will cause rust. Upon topping off, the rust gets washed away which turns the coolant into some rather nasty looking stuff over time. That usually happens with owners who don't properly maintain their vehicle(s). I am pretty sure most BITOG members don't suffer from this.
 
I forgot to mention electrolysis which will have a corrosive effect. In a nutshell, as coolant gets older from cooling system usage the pH level drops making the coolant acidic causing corrosion. This was rare with the old green coolant because it was changed often enough that this didn't occur unless the vehicle's cooling system was neglected.

With Dexcool, G-05, and other OATs this can easily happen due to extended usage. This is another great reason to do a drain and refill every couple of years. It isn't the coolant chemistry but the extended length of usage that electrolysis can happen so keep the coolant fresh to avoid this.
 
You're wrong about Dexcool and don't have your facts straight but I see there's no point in arguing it with you. I know from experience that Dexcool and clones like AMAM aren't very tolerant of air in the cooling system. I'm not going to post pics of sludge cooling system to prove it to you.

It wasn't coolant age or sealer tabs or electrolysis that caused all the issues seen. Electrolysis is exactly what the inhibitors are preventing and Dexcool's inhibitors doesn't deplete normally at the rate you are suggesting. It was primarily low coolant level and air causing the issues. Dexcool didn't cause issues on models with pressurised reservoirs but did on models that did not. They both had sealer tabs and it happened on problem vehicles within a few months of initial service.

None of the automakers recommend Dexcool/Dexclone in their cooling systems that were not validated for it because Dexcool is not a universal formula that you think it is. Why do you think GM and Ford use pressurized reservoirs while switching over to Dexcool formula? It is basically a necessity.

Prestone and the rest of the Dexcool coolants prevent corrosion very well and easily for the 5 year service interval. But the cooling system has to remain completely full and in good working order. It's not something I will put in just any person's car who may allow their coolant level to run low.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
You're wrong about Dexcool and don't have your facts straight but I see there's no point in arguing it with you. I know from experience that Dexcool and clones like AMAM aren't very tolerant of air in the cooling system. I'm not going to post pics of sludge cooling system to prove it to you.

My facts are perfectly fine. Yours however are misconstrued.

No cooling system is tolerant to air regardless of coolant type when the coolant is low. Rust will eventually form and washes into the coolant when the cooling system is topped off.

You are the one who shot out this claim...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2492487#Post2492487

"Yes I've seen Prestone AMAM gum up within a few months in cap on radiator systems that did not gum on the FF Havoline formula."

You can't post pictures of your claim that Prestone AMAM gums up either because you can't prove your claim or because you are making an assumption it would happen based on some experience you had with Dexcool.

REGARDLESS, you need to stop making claims you cannot prove.

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It wasn't coolant age or sealer tabs or electrolysis that caused all the issues seen. Electrolysis is exactly what the inhibitors are preventing and Dexcool's inhibitors doesn't deplete normally at the rate you are suggesting. It was primarily low coolant level and air causing the issues. Dexcool didn't cause issues on models with pressurised reservoirs but did on models that did not. They both had sealer tabs and it happened on problem vehicles within a few months of initial service.

Sigh. Now you are the one confusing stuff.

"Electrolysis is exactly what the inhibitors are preventing and Dexcool's inhibitors doesn't deplete normally at the rate you are suggesting."

Assuming no contamination? Probably but it is kind of silly to run it the advertised length. If going that long, the pH level needs to be checked. If the coolant goes acidic, it will corrode the cooling system even if the cooling system is properly filled. Here is a good article on this subject...

http://www.aa1car.com/library/cooling_system_electrolysis_corrosion.htm

The reason you see no issues in pressurized coolant tanks is because that is the only way to fill the cooling system. Therefore if the pressurized coolant tank is at the proper level then the rest of the cooling system is as well.

However on a radiator with a radiator cap and unpressurized over flow tank, the over flow can be at the proper level but the radiator can still be severely low on coolant. Both must be checked to ensure they are properly filled.

Air is not magically turning coolant into gum in the over flow tank as you keep suggesting.

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
None of the automakers recommend Dexcool/Dexclone in their cooling systems that were not validated for it because Dexcool is not a universal formula that you think it is. Why do you think GM and Ford use pressurized reservoirs while switching over to Dexcool formula? It is basically a necessity.

OAT is the universal formula for cars and light-duty trucks. Ford is now going to it. Other will follow. Just wait and see.

Prestone AMAM, Super Tech, Peak Long Life, and Polar Long Life are ALL OAT coolants ALL stating they work in ALL MAKES and MODELS (for cars and light-duty trucks) using ingredients similar to Dexcool and have been out for many years now.

Polar Long Life says right on the label, "Mix with ANY color antifreeze including GM Dex-Cool, Ford & Chrysler"...

http://s1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff48...12-20144835.jpg

The creation of pressurized coolant tanks wasn't due to Dexcool. Chrysler and Ford have been using pressurized tanks in numerous vehicles starting around the mid-90s when they were still running green in everything. It is simply a progression of technology.

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Prestone and the rest of the Dexcool coolants prevent corrosion very well and easily for the 5 year service interval. But the cooling system has to remain completely full and in good working order. It's not something I will put in just any person's car who may allow their coolant level to run low.

A lot can happen to coolant in 5 years. Draining and refilling the radiator and tank at least every two years is good preventative maintenance. Doing so keeps the coolant fresh, helps gets rid of sediment in the radiator, and also gets rid of the need to due a full blown flush. Even though it is claimed different coolants can be mixed, I would never recommend mixing the old green stuff with any OAT or HOAT coolant.
 
At the risk of confusing things even more, let me ask this.

There are OATs and HOATs. I was under the impression that Dex-Cool is a true OAT and that most other long life coolants are HOATs. But it looks like I might be wrong on that.

I exchanged the coolant in my Acura a few weekends ago and the Honda blue coolant appears to have NONE of the common constituents in it. It specifically states that it's silicate-free, borate-free, phosphorous-free, etc. Is Honda's coolant basically the same as G-05 (which I guess is a HOAT), or is it closer to Dex-Cool?
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
At the risk of confusing things even more, let me ask this.

There are OATs and HOATs. I was under the impression that Dex-Cool is a true OAT and that most other long life coolants are HOATs. But it looks like I might be wrong on that.

I exchanged the coolant in my Acura a few weekends ago and the Honda blue coolant appears to have NONE of the common constituents in it. It specifically states that it's silicate-free, borate-free, phosphorous-free, etc. Is Honda's coolant basically the same as G-05 (which I guess is a HOAT), or is it closer to Dex-Cool?

Type2 is an Asian P-OAT. It's silcate and borate free but contains phosphates, thus the P. No 2eha.

DexCool is an OAT, and contains 2eha.

G-05 is an HOAT, it low silicates and phosphate free. No 2eha.

Just for clarification, when I said I used Peak Long Life (Universal) in my Altima/non pressurized tank with no issues, I wasn't referring to 'DexCool'(GM) at all. Based on my experience only, 2eha gasket incompatibility 'might' have been the only thing I risked.

It had a top fill radiator, easy to fill to the top, check and maintain. I never understood why GM put the radiator cap on the corner of some radiators/non pressurized tank, which made it all but impossible to completely fill the radiator to the top.
 
You are a lost caused. I'm not going to argue and correct someone that has their facts and info all mixed up and creates numerous strawman. You should stop claiming that Dexcool and AM/AM is somehow significantly different. That it has no more propensity to sludge and that it is always fully compatable with every system. The only somewhat legitimate source that makes those claims is the coolant manufacture. Or at least if you are going to do the above and someone else gives opossing advice don't keep pushing your erroneous opinion in such a disagreeable manner.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
You are a lost caused. I'm not going to argue and correct someone that has their facts and info all mixed up and creates numerous strawman. You should stop claiming that Dexcool and AM/AM is somehow significantly different. That it has no more propensity to sludge and that it is always fully compatable with every system. The only somewhat legitimate source that makes those claims is the coolant manufacture. Or at least if you are going to do the above and someone else gives opossing advice don't keep pushing your erroneous opinion in such a disagreeable manner.

Yeah I know. It is so erroneous of me to believe what the jugs say and what I have seen using OAT.

Anyway you have proved you cannot back your claim that Prestone AMAM gums.
 
I have used Dexcool and Prestone AMAM for years and have had zero issues. But I do radiator flush and fills every other year on cars that are older then 3 years old. I got used to changing out old green coolant very few years, so I also do it with long life coolant.

On vehicles with overflow bottles, I usually fill an inch or so over the high mark when cold, which still gives plenty of open space for expansion. I was told by a GM engineer that this helps prevent air in the system.

Also, older radiator caps do fail and it is cheap maintenance to replace with a new cap every few years.

Like I said, I have never had a issues. Yes, I am anal about maintaining my vehicles...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
You're wrong about Dexcool and don't have your facts straight but I see there's no point in arguing it with you. I know from experience that Dexcool and clones like AMAM aren't very tolerant of air in the cooling system. I'm not going to post pics of sludge cooling system to prove it to you.

My facts are perfectly fine. Yours however are misconstrued.

No cooling system is tolerant to air regardless of coolant type when the coolant is low. Rust will eventually form and washes into the coolant when the cooling system is topped off.

You are the one who shot out this claim...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2492487#Post2492487

"Yes I've seen Prestone AMAM gum up within a few months in cap on radiator systems that did not gum on the FF Havoline formula."

You can't post pictures of your claim that Prestone AMAM gums up either because you can't prove your claim or because you are making an assumption it would happen based on some experience you had with Dexcool.

REGARDLESS, you need to stop making claims you cannot prove.


You are missing the point. Dexcool's problems with air and running low were unprecedent. Green IAT and some HOAT could be ran low for much longer and some vehicle were manufactured without even a reservoir. The problem with Dexcool wasn't just rust (which by the way doesn't happen as often with other coolant types) it was gumming. It was doing this within a few thousand miles and a few months. The gumming and corrosion protection break down happen much more severely and quickly than other coolants. Do you get it now? I don't need to prove my claims. The proof is out. You should hold yourself to the same standard and prove all your claims. And stop also insinuating I'm a liar.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It wasn't coolant age or sealer tabs or electrolysis that caused all the issues seen. Electrolysis is exactly what the inhibitors are preventing and Dexcool's inhibitors doesn't deplete normally at the rate you are suggesting. It was primarily low coolant level and air causing the issues. Dexcool didn't cause issues on models with pressurised reservoirs but did on models that did not. They both had sealer tabs and it happened on problem vehicles within a few months of initial service.

Sigh. Now you are the one confusing stuff.


I'm not confusing anything.
Quote:
"Electrolysis is exactly what the inhibitors are preventing and Dexcool's inhibitors doesn't deplete normally at the rate you are suggesting."

Assuming no contamination? Probably but it is kind of silly to run it the advertised length. If going that long, the pH level needs to be checked. If the coolant goes acidic, it will corrode the cooling system even if the cooling system is properly filled. Here is a good article on this subject...

http://www.aa1car.com/library/cooling_system_electrolysis_corrosion.htm


Here you go again creating a false attribution. The problems weren't due to pH or inhibitor depletion. Dexcool can easily run it's 5 year/150k mile when it maintains proper fill. OATs like Dexcool deplete its pH buffer slower. If what you are saying is true that Dexcool can't last any longer or as long as the IAT Green it replaced then what is the point of using it? Longer service life was the whole goal of its development.


Quote:
The reason you see no issues in pressurized coolant tanks is because that is the only way to fill the cooling system. Therefore if the pressurized coolant tank is at the proper level then the rest of the cooling system is as well.

However on a radiator with a radiator cap and unpressurized over flow tank, the over flow can be at the proper level but the radiator can still be severely low on coolant. Both must be checked to ensure they are properly filled.

Air is not magically turning coolant into gum in the over flow tank as you keep suggesting.


So you are admiting that Dexcool requires the system to remain completely full or problems can insue. Problems that Green didn't have contrary to your claims. It's like talking to a wall here. I never said Dexcool gums in the over flow tank. It gums when the system has air in the radiator, sometimes the engine cooling passages, and the heater core. Places where there is a lot of heat and turbulence.


Quote:
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
None of the automakers recommend Dexcool/Dexclone in their cooling systems that were not validated for it because Dexcool is not a universal formula that you think it is. Why do you think GM and Ford use pressurized reservoirs while switching over to Dexcool formula? It is basically a necessity.

OAT is the universal formula for cars and light-duty trucks. Ford is now going to it. Other will follow. Just wait and see.

Prestone AMAM, Super Tech, Peak Long Life, and Polar Long Life are ALL OAT coolants ALL stating they work in ALL MAKES and MODELS (for cars and light-duty trucks) using ingredients similar to Dexcool and have been out for many years now.

Polar Long Life says right on the label, "Mix with ANY color antifreeze including GM Dex-Cool, Ford & Chrysler"...

http://s1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff48...12-20144835.jpg


Everyone knows the marketing claims. But the FTC order Prestone to stop making those claims and Prestone refused http://www.aftermarketnews.com/Item/29434/prestone_universal_coolants_case_sent_to_the_ftc.aspx. And manufacturers particular Ford and Honda say not to use it in their vehicles not validated for its use. And when Dexcool was introduced it was rejected by most other automakers because problems were observed and it is not a simple direct replacement coolant. It requires modifications to prevent problems.

Quote:
The creation of pressurized coolant tanks wasn't due to Dexcool. Chrysler and Ford have been using pressurized tanks in numerous vehicles starting around the mid-90s when they were still running green in everything. It is simply a progression of technology.
[

I didn't say the creation of pressurized tanks was due to Dexcool or OATs but that it is one of the main reasons Dexcool no longer creates problems in GM vehicles (even ran much longer than 5 years contrary to your claims) and one of the changes that will allow its use in later model Fords.


Quote:
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Prestone and the rest of the Dexcool coolants prevent corrosion very well and easily for the 5 year service interval. But the cooling system has to remain completely full and in good working order. It's not something I will put in just any person's car who may allow their coolant level to run low.

A lot can happen to coolant in 5 years. Draining and refilling the radiator and tank at least every two years is good preventative maintenance. Doing so keeps the coolant fresh, helps gets rid of sediment in the radiator, and also gets rid of the need to due a full blown flush. Even though it is claimed different coolants can be mixed, I would never recommend mixing the old green stuff with any OAT or HOAT coolant.


This is based on your false premise that Dexcool problems are due to age. Dexcool in a completely filled system easily last it's rated 5/150 service life. Again, that was the whole point of its development. If needs to be changed within 2 years, what would be the point of using it?
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
I have used Dexcool and Prestone AMAM for years and have had zero issues. But I do radiator flush and fills every other year on cars that are older then 3 years old. I got used to changing out old green coolant very few years, so I also do it with long life coolant.

On vehicles with overflow bottles, I usually fill an inch or so over the high mark when cold, which still gives plenty of open space for expansion. I was told by a GM engineer that this helps prevent air in the system.

Also, older radiator caps do fail and it is cheap maintenance to replace with a new cap every few years.

Like I said, I have never had a issues. Yes, I am anal about maintaining my vehicles...


But see that's my whole point Dexcool usually works well if the system is properly maintained and filled full, there are no leaks and the pressure cap is working correcly. It might help to change it more often but shouldn't be necessarily. Coolant leaks can happen and not be evident to the average car owner. I can't expect them to check regularly under the pressure cap and keep the system filled. If the system has a pressurised surge tank I don't have any hesitation in using Dexcool or recommending it.
 
Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
You are a lost caused. I'm not going to argue and correct someone that has their facts and info all mixed up and creates numerous strawman. You should stop claiming that Dexcool and AM/AM is somehow significantly different. That it has no more propensity to sludge and that it is always fully compatable with every system. The only somewhat legitimate source that makes those claims is the coolant manufacture. Or at least if you are going to do the above and someone else gives opossing advice don't keep pushing your erroneous opinion in such a disagreeable manner.

Yeah I know. It is so erroneous of me to believe what the jugs say and what I have seen using OAT.

Anyway you have proved you cannot back your claim that Prestone AMAM gums.


How am I going to "prove" that to someone like you? If I post pictures of gummed up cooling sytems, how am I going to prove to you that it was ran with AM/AM. You've already shown you will deny any claims that it does and create diversions and excuse for the coolant.
 
@mechanicx

I am not going to get into a lengthy online argument. You said you have seen Prestone AMAM turn into gum yet you still provide no evidence. The reason you cannot provide evidence is because you have none. It never dawned on you to take a picture of gummed up Prestone AMAM if you did in fact observe that happening?

Everything I have pointed out is fact. I cannot help you believe in them or not, but I think most readers of this thread will easily see what I have said is true and what you have said is unproven opinion.

You need to use the search feature of this forum and read about how Dex-cool and other OAT coolants actually work. You will find pictures of nice clean Dex-cool cooling systems if you look for them.

In fact, here is a recent post from a user who used Dex-cool in a cooling system with a radiator cap and unpressurized over flow tank...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2471373#Post2471373

Horrendous isn't it?

Don't forget that GM used Dex-cool in the Saturn Vue which used a Honda engine. Not P-HOAT, but OAT Dex-cool and it worked perfectly fine.
 
Just so you guys know, I would do a radiator drain and fill on any type of coolant every 2-3 years... A new car, I would probably wait 3-4 years and/or 50K miles...
 
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Just so you guys know, I would do a radiator drain and fill on any type of coolant every 2-3 years... A new car, I would probably wait 3-4 years and/or 50K miles...

Agreed. It is just cheap insurance and maintenance doing so. All it takes is one gallon of coolant and one gallon of distilled water. I don't use all the distilled water though as I like to use a 60:40 ratio or coolant to distilled water.

I also like to get the over flow tank rinsed out as well.
 
Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Just so you guys know, I would do a radiator drain and fill on any type of coolant every 2-3 years... A new car, I would probably wait 3-4 years and/or 50K miles...

Agreed. It is just cheap insurance and maintenance doing so. All it takes is one gallon of coolant and one gallon of distilled water. I don't use all the distilled water though as I like to use a 60:40 ratio or coolant to distilled water.

I also like to get the over flow tank rinsed out as well.


Ditto on cleaning out the overflow tank...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

O
The coolant I used to use is no longer available and my stash has ran dry.
Replies
9
Views
416
garageman402
billt460
Cooling System Drain & Flush 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 V8 ?
2
Replies
21
Views
3K
NElvina
Ashraf Jaafar
ACDelco Dex cool in 2019 Corolla
Replies
10
Views
1K
nthach
Falcon_LS
Anyone using Amsoil Heavy-Duty Antifreeze & Coolant?
Replies
5
Views
3K
Urshurak776
X
The US Army's Search for a Universal Extended Life Coolant Specification
2
Replies
26
Views
6K
Snagglefoot
Back
Top