Looks better than 5w-50 Version. Will save those for winters. Will prob. use 1qt of GC or M1 0w-30 in addition,since car takes 5qt+ depending on filter size.
SynMAX Racing 5w-30
- Thread starter zyxelenator
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"The molybdenum, zinc, and phosphorus are from harmless anti-wear additive."
Well, zinc at 2974 ppm isn't harmless; it's corrosive. This certainly is a race only oil, or one that needs to be cut with something else.
"Designed for competition engines only" says it all.
Well, zinc at 2974 ppm isn't harmless; it's corrosive. This certainly is a race only oil, or one that needs to be cut with something else.
"Designed for competition engines only" says it all.
Yes, modern cats can get poisoned by lots of Zinc. If you don't have cats or old type cats, nothing to worry about.
Well I bought it because it was way cheaper, like 5 times, I have a buddy with stage 2 Turbo car with no cats.
I have older type cats( And I can just cut it off if it clogs( no state checks)and since car burned oil horribly before,like a year ago and cat is still fine, I think it can handle some little elevated zinc for coupe ocis,not in a row).
I can use it in a mix.
Owners of classic and performance engines might like this oil and brand(they have lots of different oils)
I have older type cats( And I can just cut it off if it clogs( no state checks)and since car burned oil horribly before,like a year ago and cat is still fine, I think it can handle some little elevated zinc for coupe ocis,not in a row).
I can use it in a mix.
Owners of classic and performance engines might like this oil and brand(they have lots of different oils)
3000ppm zinc is NOT 'some little elevated zinc'....it's toxic to the engine.
I don't know the exact science behind it, but Zn amounts over something like 2000pm can cause engine damage...they cause something called 'spalling', but I don't know much about it.
If you put maybe 1 quart of this in a full sump of SM/SN oil, it would be fine, but at anything over 50%, it will possibly cause problems.
I don't know the exact science behind it, but Zn amounts over something like 2000pm can cause engine damage...they cause something called 'spalling', but I don't know much about it.
If you put maybe 1 quart of this in a full sump of SM/SN oil, it would be fine, but at anything over 50%, it will possibly cause problems.
I agree with the concern about that high of ZDDP dose. It can increase wear. Here is an article discussing it. http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oils_and_zddp.pdf
Originally Posted By: JAG
Here is an article discussing it. http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oils_and_zddp.pdf
Just another opinion from a self admitted non-expert.
Here is an article discussing it. http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oils_and_zddp.pdf
Just another opinion from a self admitted non-expert.
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Well, there are plenty of sources about elevated ZDDP causing problems, aside from with cats. My reading has indicated that one should not go above 1700 ppm, since above that, there are diminishing returns, and much above that becomes corrosive.
There are actual experts here who you could ask.
There are actual experts here who you could ask.
Will it show up on UOA? Corrosive effect?
As I know zinc used as anti-corrosive protection in many applications.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/zrt.aspx
I guess 1 oci won't kill engine, if uoa will show more wear, will be used only as add-on oil.
As I know zinc used as anti-corrosive protection in many applications.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/zrt.aspx
I guess 1 oci won't kill engine, if uoa will show more wear, will be used only as add-on oil.
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: JAG
Here is an article discussing it. http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oils_and_zddp.pdf
Just another opinion from a self admitted non-expert.
Maybe you missed the part referencing an article by Bob Olree, of the GM Powertrain Fuels and Lubricants Group, who is not a non-expert. Page 2.
Originally Posted By: JAG
Here is an article discussing it. http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oils_and_zddp.pdf
Just another opinion from a self admitted non-expert.
Maybe you missed the part referencing an article by Bob Olree, of the GM Powertrain Fuels and Lubricants Group, who is not a non-expert. Page 2.
Yes, ZDDP is used as an anti-corrosive, but the concentration is the key. I wouldn't go above 1700 ppm. I'm not positive on the chemistry as to why it gets corrosive above a certain level. However, I'd suspect it's not terribly different from the notion that TBN can be too high for certain applications.
I doubt one OCI would kill the engine either. As to wear showing up in a UOA, that's another can of worms.
I doubt one OCI would kill the engine either. As to wear showing up in a UOA, that's another can of worms.
Originally Posted By: JAG
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: JAG
Here is an article discussing it. http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oils_and_zddp.pdf
Just another opinion from a self admitted non-expert.
Maybe you missed the part referencing an article by Bob Olree, of the GM Powertrain Fuels and Lubricants Group, who is not a non-expert. Page 2.
Nope, if they are such an expert then why are we here on this forum. We should just follow the owner manual and be done with it. Talk to people like Maxima and Red Line and you will get a different opinion.
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: JAG
Here is an article discussing it. http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oils_and_zddp.pdf
Just another opinion from a self admitted non-expert.
Maybe you missed the part referencing an article by Bob Olree, of the GM Powertrain Fuels and Lubricants Group, who is not a non-expert. Page 2.
Nope, if they are such an expert then why are we here on this forum. We should just follow the owner manual and be done with it. Talk to people like Maxima and Red Line and you will get a different opinion.
Here is the quote from Bob Alree:
A higher level of ZDDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear,
but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was
reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when
phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDDP
started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.
I wonder if he was talking about cast iron or steel cams?
But anyway, it does say that phos above 1400ppm could cause an increase in long term wear.
A higher level of ZDDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear,
but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was
reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when
phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDDP
started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.
I wonder if he was talking about cast iron or steel cams?
But anyway, it does say that phos above 1400ppm could cause an increase in long term wear.
Exactly my point. Was camshaft spalling caused by the ZDDP concentration or the camshaft material and surface treatment? What is "long term wear" and what is the maintenance schedule during that period? What was the recommend oil vs the test oil? How much was the increase in wear?
I've posted two UOAs totaling over 30K miles on my VW TDI with ZDDP over 2000ppm and excellent results. Oil manufacturers still make SJ oil for motorcycles with ZDDP above 0.14% and I don't hear any complaint from motorcycle manufacturers.
I've posted two UOAs totaling over 30K miles on my VW TDI with ZDDP over 2000ppm and excellent results. Oil manufacturers still make SJ oil for motorcycles with ZDDP above 0.14% and I don't hear any complaint from motorcycle manufacturers.
Thanks for the VOA
Reviving my old thread.
I was wondering would this oil be perfect to use in power equipment. I was thinking about mixing 5w-30 and 5w-50 synmax and use it as top off oil in 3 cars in my sig, and various power equipment(JD 7.5hp mover, blowers, trimmers) which includes new 23hp Kohler on my zero turn mover, which will work in kinda severe conditions.( Steep hill almost whole lawn,hot dump weather).
I was wondering would this oil be perfect to use in power equipment. I was thinking about mixing 5w-30 and 5w-50 synmax and use it as top off oil in 3 cars in my sig, and various power equipment(JD 7.5hp mover, blowers, trimmers) which includes new 23hp Kohler on my zero turn mover, which will work in kinda severe conditions.( Steep hill almost whole lawn,hot dump weather).
MolaKule
Staff member
I would not.
Bob Alree was correct about the phosphorus attacking the grain boundaries when the phos concentration was high.
When Bob spoke about long-term, he meant anytime past the break-in period for rebuilt engines.
A UOA will not show the grain boundary attack.
The SynMax is a racing only oil and should be changed out and flushed after every race and not left in any engine.
Use your Kendall.
Bob Alree was correct about the phosphorus attacking the grain boundaries when the phos concentration was high.
When Bob spoke about long-term, he meant anytime past the break-in period for rebuilt engines.
A UOA will not show the grain boundary attack.
The SynMax is a racing only oil and should be changed out and flushed after every race and not left in any engine.
Use your Kendall.
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