Audi A4 vs. BMW 3-series for the DIY'er...?

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Which car is better for the person who likes to do all his own maintenance and repairs? Say a 2010+ Audi A4 4cyl, man. trans AWD or a BMW 3-series, man. trans AWD?

I don't own a garage but get by pretty good on my driveway with ramps, jack stands, etc...with hand tools and an electric impact wrench. I have no experience with these brands.

I keep my cars 10 to 12 years. I assume the cost for repairs will be about the same but is one brand more DIY friendly?
 
E30 and E36 were easy to work on, but parts were expensive. I suspect the parts cost would be high for Audi as well though.

I have not had anything newer than that. I would like to have another E30 though, preferably with an S52 under the hood
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They'll both be difficult. The Germans like to make things very complicated and require strange tools to do certain things (like triple-square sockets).

Coming from almost 10 years worth of Hondas/Acuras, my Audi was a really big change in terms of DIY maintenance.
 
I find my BMW Z4 to be easier to work on than my A6. Even though they are not in the same class of vehicles, I would think that A4 would be a more sophisticated vehicle than a 3 series BMW.

Of course, the biggest DIY being the annual oil changes, they both are very easy to do with an oil vac.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
They'll both be difficult. The Germans like to make things very complicated and require strange tools to do certain things (like triple-square sockets).

Coming from almost 10 years worth of Hondas/Acuras, my Audi was a really big change in terms of DIY maintenance.


Really? I haven't found mine to be difficult to work on at all so far. Everything is in "layers" and seems to come apart in a very logical fashion.
 
I service my wife's Audi TT and find it to be difficult to work on. In my opinion an engine arranged with its crankshaft aligned with the front-to-back center line of the car is easiest to service.
 
Niether of your choices are great from a DIY standpoint but if I had to choose between the 2 based on my experience working on many of both makes I would go with the BMW.
 
My experience has been with Toyotas and Saabs; both I find easy to work on. But with Saab now dead, my wife's next car will probably be an Audi or BMW...
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: dparm
They'll both be difficult. The Germans like to make things very complicated and require strange tools to do certain things (like triple-square sockets).

Coming from almost 10 years worth of Hondas/Acuras, my Audi was a really big change in terms of DIY maintenance.


Really? I haven't found mine to be difficult to work on at all so far. Everything is in "layers" and seems to come apart in a very logical fashion.

Ditto.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: dparm
They'll both be difficult. The Germans like to make things very complicated and require strange tools to do certain things (like triple-square sockets).

Coming from almost 10 years worth of Hondas/Acuras, my Audi was a really big change in terms of DIY maintenance.


Really? I haven't found mine to be difficult to work on at all so far. Everything is in "layers" and seems to come apart in a very logical fashion.

Ditto.


Maybe it is the # of layers.... lol.
 
I've done all my own maintenance work on my BMW's through the years - brakes, oil, suspension, etc. Before 1980 I did two engines and a gearbox, but I wouldn't tackle that now. A basic metric tool kit is all you need for basic maintenance and repairs.

BMW's are easy to work on once you understand the way they're put together. Some of them are cramped, some are more roomy. Other than that, the cars are pretty consistent in how they're put together.
 
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To me the bigger question for long term ownership is can you obtain the factory service manual? Certainly a "no" for the BMW and I suspect the same for the Audi. A Bentley gets you half way but there is no substitute for the real thing.
Normal maintenance accessibility should be a breeze on both cars.
 
Originally Posted By: Foch
My experience has been with Toyotas and Saabs; both I find easy to work on. But with Saab now dead, my wife's next car will probably be an Audi or BMW...


It is interesting you have experience on Saabs and Toyotas, what do you find as the design philosophy differences between the two? I always owned Japanese cars with a few US ones. I found those to be built along the same design more or less which is probably indicative of the close relationship between the manufacturers over the years.

However, when I bought my BMW (used) I found the design thought process completely different. It has taken me a while to get my head wrapped around the whole thing, it is not the same as working on a Toyota for example. Everything is different (and more complicated IMHO). Another thing - some parts on the BMW look to be built like a tank and yet fail way before the more fragile looking Japanese counterpart. I agree that BMWs are waaaaay more complicated in my opinion. But I have a bent towards uncomplicated cars, so that might just be my personal preference getting in the way. I tend to want 4-cylinder cars with manual transmissions, and without digital instrument panels and power-operated anything. I stay away from laser cruise controls and anything else that has $1000+ components that are just waiting to fail.

Take for example the cooling system on my 530i. There are a total 7 hoses, the engine driven water pump, an electrical “auxiliary” water pump, an engine driven cooling fan, and an electrical fan. Plus three temperature sensors. And a three-tube heater core. And the radiator of course. And a coolant expansion tank, all of which fail at about the 125,000 to 150,000 mile mark. None of which ever failed at 250,000 miles on my Sienna.

I guess that doesn’t help you much on your original question. I’m just not a big fan of superior German engineering I guess, although if you ask me which one do I prefer driving there is an easy answer ;-)
 
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Take for example the cooling system on my 530i. There are a total 7 hoses, the engine driven water pump, an electrical “auxiliary” water pump, an engine driven cooling fan, and an electrical fan. Plus three temperature sensors. And a three-tube heater core. And the radiator of course. And a coolant expansion tank, all of which fail at about the 125,000 to 150,000 mile mark. [/quote]

WOW, your scaring me....maybe I'll stick with used Saabs for the next decade!!!
 
Why are you looking at 2010+ for a DIY guy. Those cars have 4-5 year warranty. You shouldn't DIY anything until the last years of ownership if you play to only keep for 10 years.

The newer the car, the more likely it will need a scantool to do things.

If you wanted a 2.0T audi, i would say get FSI motor, think they are around 06-08. Then you can DIY the cam follower issue.

If you wanted a BMW, E36/46 seems to have more DIY stuff out there, plenty of pictures and etc. The newer you go the less likelihood DIY post on replacement because they are still in warranty or people haven't attempted yet. I think i've seen about 80-90% of things commonly go wrong on a e36 in DIY's.

DIY is nice and all but can be annoying as [censored] at the same time, when you break a part, cant remove/reach a bolt. Or simply when sometime breaks when you dont have time to do it. Brakes, oil, trans fluids and tire rotation are items that be pushed aside to next weekend or w/e. Having a serp belt snap, suspension part pop is something you dont want to hold off on working it.

After all said and done, i would still tell you to get a E36/E46 and DIY because its just a good feeling.
 
Originally Posted By: bowlofturtle
Why are you looking at 2010+ for a DIY guy. Those cars have 4-5 year warranty. You shouldn't DIY anything until the last years of ownership if you play to only keep for 10 years.

The newer the car, the more likely it will need a scantool to do things.

If you wanted a 2.0T audi, i would say get FSI motor, think they are around 06-08. Then you can DIY the cam follower issue.

If you wanted a BMW, E36/46 seems to have more DIY stuff out there, plenty of pictures and etc. The newer you go the less likelihood DIY post on replacement because they are still in warranty or people haven't attempted yet. I think i've seen about 80-90% of things commonly go wrong on a e36 in DIY's.

DIY is nice and all but can be annoying as [censored] at the same time, when you break a part, cant remove/reach a bolt. Or simply when sometime breaks when you dont have time to do it. Brakes, oil, trans fluids and tire rotation are items that be pushed aside to next weekend or w/e. Having a serp belt snap, suspension part pop is something you dont want to hold off on working it.

After all said and done, i would still tell you to get a E36/E46 and DIY because its just a good feeling.


I've been buying my wife a new (or almost new car) then keeping it for 10-12 years. The last 2 have been Saabs. Obviously, the first few years are warranty claims or basic DIY maintenace. After the waranty period it's all me; that's why I'm asking the question....

So far my system has worked well for me.
 
I'm fairly well tooled up for VW, so I'd give the Audi a nod... don't forget that you're going to need the full version of VCDS or make good friends with someone close what has it (no idea what the BMW version is, but I'm sure something like it exists). I find VW/Audis fairly easy to work on and tend to have things laid out in a roughly logical fashion.

To be fair I don't have particularly high opinions of the stereotypical Bayerischen MistWagen driver's DIY, interpersonal or driving skills. Of the several I know personally, one drove his E36 for 5 miles after losing all his coolant, another prefers Iffy Loob oil changes every 3k miles and a third buys the cheapest Chinesium parts he can get and wonders why he has to repeat repairs multiple times. None of them are particularly nice to be around.

But I'm sure none of them are BITOG members.
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Frankly, I'd drive both of them and see which one you could live with day-to-day. There's plenty of fun cars I'd like to drive once in a while but my trusty Golf TDI does everything I need 99.999% of the time with excellent fuel economy and (after being remapped) is sporty enough for the streets I drive on every day.
 
Originally Posted By: Foch
WOW, your scaring me....maybe I'll stick with used Saabs for the next decade!!!


Yeah, considering the news of this month you won't be getting a new Saab anytime soon
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