i have a 1991 dodge ram 150, its got the A-518 auto transmission with electronic overdrive and a non lock up converter. I know alot of people are going to say +4 is what i need to use in the transmission, but i just cant help ignoring the knowledgable ppl who tell me i dont need it since i do not have a lock up converter, and they are suggesting type f or dexronIII or dexronVI, out of them 3 fluids what should i run?
fluid alternatives to atf+4
- Thread starter pjc360
- Start date
I believe the key is whether its controlled hydraulically or with electronics and a solenoid pack. So why not use atf+3 or +4? If hydraulic I suppose u could go dex3
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From the Allpar page on your transmission:
"Use Dexron III fluid at the least; if you have the money and would like smoother shifting, use Chrysler ATF+3 or ATF+4 (there are numerous “universal” fluids, and one which conforms to Dexron III or ATF+3/+4 should work). The Type A, Suffix A fluid once suggested by Chrylser has been superceded by Dexron III."
I know for the trans in my Neon (much newer specs i know)you MUST use the ATF+4. using either of the dexron products apparently gums up the works something fierce, or so i've heard.
also poke around the 1st Gen Ram section over @ dodgeforum.com. the folks in the 2nd gen neon section have always been super helpful, and i would hope the ram guys are too...
"Use Dexron III fluid at the least; if you have the money and would like smoother shifting, use Chrysler ATF+3 or ATF+4 (there are numerous “universal” fluids, and one which conforms to Dexron III or ATF+3/+4 should work). The Type A, Suffix A fluid once suggested by Chrylser has been superceded by Dexron III."
I know for the trans in my Neon (much newer specs i know)you MUST use the ATF+4. using either of the dexron products apparently gums up the works something fierce, or so i've heard.
also poke around the 1st Gen Ram section over @ dodgeforum.com. the folks in the 2nd gen neon section have always been super helpful, and i would hope the ram guys are too...
ATF+4 is the answer. If your concern is price, use super tech ATF+4 (not ST ATF, it has to be the atf+4) which is licensed by Chrysler. my WM has it for under $5 per qt.
If you have some other aversion to using ATF+4... well it's your transmission.
If you have some other aversion to using ATF+4... well it's your transmission.
ATF+4 is good stuff. From all my research there isn't much you can do to make an application that requires ATF+4 do any better than just ATF+4.
It is a case that they did a good job engineering a fluid.
It is a case that they did a good job engineering a fluid.
Originally Posted By: pjc360
i have a 1991 dodge ram 150, its got the A-518 auto transmission with electronic overdrive and a non lock up converter. I know alot of people are going to say +4 is what i need to use in the transmission, but i just cant help ignoring the knowledgable ppl who tell me i dont need it since i do not have a lock up converter, and they are suggesting type f or dexronIII or dexronVI, out of them 3 fluids what should i run?
IMHO a dex/merc fluid would work fine for your trans. ATF+4 wasn't even around back then. I am sure you could run ATF+4 just fine but I ran Dex/Merc in a 48re, which did spec ATF+4, with no issues.
i have a 1991 dodge ram 150, its got the A-518 auto transmission with electronic overdrive and a non lock up converter. I know alot of people are going to say +4 is what i need to use in the transmission, but i just cant help ignoring the knowledgable ppl who tell me i dont need it since i do not have a lock up converter, and they are suggesting type f or dexronIII or dexronVI, out of them 3 fluids what should i run?
IMHO a dex/merc fluid would work fine for your trans. ATF+4 wasn't even around back then. I am sure you could run ATF+4 just fine but I ran Dex/Merc in a 48re, which did spec ATF+4, with no issues.
This is what i have been told regarding my transmission and the chrysler truck transmissions. In 1994 is when they made the transmissions in the ram trucks more electronically controlled, with the lock up converters that could go in and out of lock up with a speed or rpm sensor, chrysler realized these newer lock up transmissions the 46re mainly was creating alot more heat then the dexronIII fluid could handle, therefore transmissions mainly the 46re's were becoming known for burning up the converter clutches, so thats when chrysler developed the atf+ 7176 fluid, and in 2001 they made the +4 fluid for longer drain intervals and better heat protection.
Dodge did not have an overdrive transmission in the ram trucks untill 1989, in 1989 they came out with A-518 for the ram and cummins trucks and the A-500s for the dakota trucks.
From 1989-1993 they used dexronIII as factory fill, and sum of the gas rams came with lock up converters but not all my 1991 is a factory non lock up A-518 and it is hydrailically controlled, the only thing electric about it is the overdrive.
So what i have been told is thatif a person owns a 89-93 dodge ram truck it is totally fine to run dexronIII or type f or pretty much whatever uelse specially if it has a non lock up converter. I have been told that +4 has too many friction modifyers that the A-518s from 89-93 do not need specially if it has a non lock up converter, it will make the transmission shift smoother but that comes at a cost wich is making the transmission run hotter.
Alot of guy i have talked to about this say if its an 89-93 A-518 do not use +4, and many people i talk to say type f works the best in them, as alot of people say type f works the best in 727s wich it does work well in the 727s they say it works the same in the A-518s as it does in the 727s, and another good bunch of people run dexronIII or the newer dexronVI, the new dexronVI is compatible to be used in anything calling for dexronIII just like +4 can be used in anything that called for +3, so alot of people say dexronVI is the best atf to use in the 89-93 A-518s because of its protecting ability and its heat handling ability. i have narrowed my choices down to ether type f or dexronVI so i am just trying to determine wich one would be best for me, i do have a transgo shift kit that will be installed sometime this next spring, the type f is appealing because of well it makes the A-518 shift, it also keeps it running cooler because there is hardly any slippage going on when running type f. But type f does not have as many additives in it therefore it has to be changed more regulary wich is not a big deal to me, the dexronVI however can go alot longer since it is a synthetic and it handles heat and cold temps better then the type f, but the dexronVI cost alot more the type f and it still has some friction modifyers that the A-518 does not really need therefore it will bring softer shifting compared to the dexronVI, but with a shift kit that will solve that.
So i just do not know wich fluid to use the type f or the dexronVI?
Dodge did not have an overdrive transmission in the ram trucks untill 1989, in 1989 they came out with A-518 for the ram and cummins trucks and the A-500s for the dakota trucks.
From 1989-1993 they used dexronIII as factory fill, and sum of the gas rams came with lock up converters but not all my 1991 is a factory non lock up A-518 and it is hydrailically controlled, the only thing electric about it is the overdrive.
So what i have been told is thatif a person owns a 89-93 dodge ram truck it is totally fine to run dexronIII or type f or pretty much whatever uelse specially if it has a non lock up converter. I have been told that +4 has too many friction modifyers that the A-518s from 89-93 do not need specially if it has a non lock up converter, it will make the transmission shift smoother but that comes at a cost wich is making the transmission run hotter.
Alot of guy i have talked to about this say if its an 89-93 A-518 do not use +4, and many people i talk to say type f works the best in them, as alot of people say type f works the best in 727s wich it does work well in the 727s they say it works the same in the A-518s as it does in the 727s, and another good bunch of people run dexronIII or the newer dexronVI, the new dexronVI is compatible to be used in anything calling for dexronIII just like +4 can be used in anything that called for +3, so alot of people say dexronVI is the best atf to use in the 89-93 A-518s because of its protecting ability and its heat handling ability. i have narrowed my choices down to ether type f or dexronVI so i am just trying to determine wich one would be best for me, i do have a transgo shift kit that will be installed sometime this next spring, the type f is appealing because of well it makes the A-518 shift, it also keeps it running cooler because there is hardly any slippage going on when running type f. But type f does not have as many additives in it therefore it has to be changed more regulary wich is not a big deal to me, the dexronVI however can go alot longer since it is a synthetic and it handles heat and cold temps better then the type f, but the dexronVI cost alot more the type f and it still has some friction modifyers that the A-518 does not really need therefore it will bring softer shifting compared to the dexronVI, but with a shift kit that will solve that.
So i just do not know wich fluid to use the type f or the dexronVI?
Are you trying to do it the cheapest way, good way or best way. IMHO, the best is Amsoil, the cheapest is ST ATF+4 and the good way is up for grabs.
If you put in Amsoil ATF and a Magnefine filter, that is all you will probably ever need to do ever again for the 1991 truck.
If you put in Amsoil ATF and a Magnefine filter, that is all you will probably ever need to do ever again for the 1991 truck.
yes i have thought about running the amsoil atf, but i will be in my transmission pan quite a bit, i am installing a shift kit this spring or having a shop install it, and after that shift kit is installed it will take a little tweeking to get it just perfect as far as line pressure and band adjustment.
I dont want 12 dollar a quart atf in there because if i have to drop the pan 2 or 3 times to get it running the way i want each time i drop the pan there goes 6 to 7 quarts of fluid lol see how expensive that would be?
I know dexronIII was factory fill, but if i was going to use a dexron fluid it would have to be the new dexronVI it is 4 times the fluid dexronIII is and it also says it can be used in appliocation the calls for dexronIII, wich dexronIII was factory fill for my transmission...
so really i am narrowed down to type f or dexronVI.
I dont want 12 dollar a quart atf in there because if i have to drop the pan 2 or 3 times to get it running the way i want each time i drop the pan there goes 6 to 7 quarts of fluid lol see how expensive that would be?
I know dexronIII was factory fill, but if i was going to use a dexron fluid it would have to be the new dexronVI it is 4 times the fluid dexronIII is and it also says it can be used in appliocation the calls for dexronIII, wich dexronIII was factory fill for my transmission...
so really i am narrowed down to type f or dexronVI.
Im most dubious about using dex6..
Its thinner than both dex3 and atf+3/4.
Using atf+4 is as i see it the most safe bet.
-dealer rec
-high quality fluid
Dex 3 on the other hand.
-factory fill
U should know that part of the temperature problem
is due to higher gearing that made converter slippage
more prone to heat the oil, the lock up solved this problem.
Lock up trannies runs cooler.
ATF+3/4 was developed to fix the troublesome A604, 4 sp
minivan tranny. This is the reason for the chrysler fluids higher quality, fix in a bottle!
If u can get atf+4 at a good prize- use it.
Dex3, use it but change more often...
Its thinner than both dex3 and atf+3/4.
Using atf+4 is as i see it the most safe bet.
-dealer rec
-high quality fluid
Dex 3 on the other hand.
-factory fill
U should know that part of the temperature problem
is due to higher gearing that made converter slippage
more prone to heat the oil, the lock up solved this problem.
Lock up trannies runs cooler.
ATF+3/4 was developed to fix the troublesome A604, 4 sp
minivan tranny. This is the reason for the chrysler fluids higher quality, fix in a bottle!
If u can get atf+4 at a good prize- use it.
Dex3, use it but change more often...
One minor note PJC360, the A-518 wasn't put behind the Cummins until later, 1992 or 1993 IIRC, my 1990 D250 CTD had an A-727 in it. I ran ATF+4 in it without issues.
I believe that I would stay away from type F. It's highly friction modified for brass clutches used in very old (c4/c6) Ford transmissions. ATF+4 has very little friction modifiers. Modern clutches use paper fiber or more recently carbon fiber clutches and type f will tear them up IMHO. I've heard people add 1 quart of Type F to firm up shifts.
Originally Posted By: partspro
I believe that I would stay away from type F. It's highly friction modified for brass clutches used in very old (c4/c6) Ford transmissions. ATF+4 has very little friction modifiers. Modern clutches use paper fiber or more recently carbon fiber clutches and type f will tear them up IMHO. I've heard people add 1 quart of Type F to firm up shifts.
I think you got the backwards...Type F ATF is gloried light hydraulic fluid...no friction modifiers. ATF+4 is a highly friction modified fluid.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=52&pcid=9
I believe that I would stay away from type F. It's highly friction modified for brass clutches used in very old (c4/c6) Ford transmissions. ATF+4 has very little friction modifiers. Modern clutches use paper fiber or more recently carbon fiber clutches and type f will tear them up IMHO. I've heard people add 1 quart of Type F to firm up shifts.
I think you got the backwards...Type F ATF is gloried light hydraulic fluid...no friction modifiers. ATF+4 is a highly friction modified fluid.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=52&pcid=9
atf+4 is highly FM. That's why Dex in the minivan trans was bad--- too grabby and the TCU would back the clutches off, then try again, accelerating clutch wear.
I'd be all over Dex VI. Use an off-brand if cost is a factor.
ATF+4 will be smoother but will allow more slip.
I'd be all over Dex VI. Use an off-brand if cost is a factor.
ATF+4 will be smoother but will allow more slip.
Isn't DexVI highly friction modified as well? I don't see the point in using DexVI over ATF+4...you'd probably be best off with a quality DexIII equivalent like Maxlife if you don't want the AFT+4.
dexronVI does have some friction modifyers as well as dexronIII,
but still +4 has alot more friction modifyers then dexronIII or dexronIV. And type f was made for brass? were they using brass in chrysler 727s in the 70s? because my old man ran type f in the 727 in his 70 plymouth cuda and in his 75 dodge truck.
He re-built the 727 in the truck in about 2003 or 2004 and used type f in it with no problems? maybe he ordered brass pieces or maybe they came in the re-build kit? i just dont see why type f would harm my transmission, i have been told by others that they use type f in there A-518 and i know for a fact it can be used in the 727.
The dexronVI is kina appealing because its a synthetic with a relatively low amount of friction modifyers compared to +4.
but still +4 has alot more friction modifyers then dexronIII or dexronIV. And type f was made for brass? were they using brass in chrysler 727s in the 70s? because my old man ran type f in the 727 in his 70 plymouth cuda and in his 75 dodge truck.
He re-built the 727 in the truck in about 2003 or 2004 and used type f in it with no problems? maybe he ordered brass pieces or maybe they came in the re-build kit? i just dont see why type f would harm my transmission, i have been told by others that they use type f in there A-518 and i know for a fact it can be used in the 727.
The dexronVI is kina appealing because its a synthetic with a relatively low amount of friction modifyers compared to +4.
Originally Posted By: pjc360
dexronVI does have some friction modifyers as well as dexronIII,
but still +4 has alot more friction modifyers then dexronIII or dexronIV. And type f was made for brass? were they using brass in chrysler 727s in the 70s? because my old man ran type f in the 727 in his 70 plymouth cuda and in his 75 dodge truck.
He re-built the 727 in the truck in about 2003 or 2004 and used type f in it with no problems? maybe he ordered brass pieces or maybe they came in the re-build kit? i just dont see why type f would harm my transmission, i have been told by others that they use type f in there A-518 and i know for a fact it can be used in the 727.
The dexronVI is kina appealing because its a synthetic with a relatively low amount of friction modifyers compared to +4.
That makes sense now, thanks.
dexronVI does have some friction modifyers as well as dexronIII,
but still +4 has alot more friction modifyers then dexronIII or dexronIV. And type f was made for brass? were they using brass in chrysler 727s in the 70s? because my old man ran type f in the 727 in his 70 plymouth cuda and in his 75 dodge truck.
He re-built the 727 in the truck in about 2003 or 2004 and used type f in it with no problems? maybe he ordered brass pieces or maybe they came in the re-build kit? i just dont see why type f would harm my transmission, i have been told by others that they use type f in there A-518 and i know for a fact it can be used in the 727.
The dexronVI is kina appealing because its a synthetic with a relatively low amount of friction modifyers compared to +4.
That makes sense now, thanks.
ok well i just picked up my truck from the transmission shop, they had to put a new converter on it, and i asked about running type f and he said NO and i asked bout dexronVI and he said no he said +3 or dexronIII only. He said dexronVi is synthetic like it was a bad thing? he said yopu could get away with using +4 but you really dont need it and it will cause it to shift poorly.
So looks like dexronIII will be what i use, i dont see why he dont like type f he said its old technology not very good bla bla bla but some of the smartest mopar transmission guys i know run it? and this guy is clearly a gm man he drives a chevy truck the owner.
So looks like dexronIII will be what i use, i dont see why he dont like type f he said its old technology not very good bla bla bla but some of the smartest mopar transmission guys i know run it? and this guy is clearly a gm man he drives a chevy truck the owner.
i think alot of this comes down to personal prefrence basically.... one guy will tell ya this works best and another guy will tell you its junk, in was just curious to see what you guys would think. i am not going to run +4 ill use dexronIII i guess or dexron/mercon same thing?
