Understanding VW oil specifications

[dparm]

Can someone please verify this website is correct?

http://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php


It's actually saying that 504 superseded 503.01, the old "high performance" oil spec. The way I understand it is that 504 oils can be used on anything that calls for 502, but not the other way around. 504 does not technically "supersede" 502 but rather "supplements" it. The Lubrizol graphing tool shows 504 being stricter than 502 (and also placing emphasis on fuel economy).

Lubrizol's site actually shows that 502 was revised in 2005, wheres 504 was revised in 2004. VAG is still selling cars that call for VW 502 oil, like the new S4.

 

[Quattro Pete]

I suspect the difference between VW 504 and VW 502 is similar to the difference between BMW LL04 and BMW LL01. The first one (504, LL04) is typically a mid/low-SAPs oil (for aftertreatment compatibility) which is incapable of extended drains when gasoline quality is sub-par, like is the case in the US where our gasoline isn't ultra low sulfur.

That is why something like LL04 superseded LL01 in Europe, but it did not supersed it in the US.

This thread has some additional discussion on the subject:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1923428#Post1923428

 

[glxpassat]

Since 504 meets higher specs than 502, a lot of cars don't need it. Anybody could use it, but it costs more and 502 is fine for most.

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I suspect the difference between VW 504 and VW 502 is similar to the difference between BMW LL04 and BMW LL01. The first one (504, LL04) is typically a mid/low-SAPs oil (for aftertreatment compatibility) which is incapable of extended drains when gasoline quality is sub-par, like is the case in the US where our gasoline isn't ultra low sulfur.

That is why something like LL04 superseded LL01 in Europe, but it did not supersed it in the US.

This thread has some additional discussion on the subject:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1923428#Post1923428


the exhaust aftertreatments is more for the diesel side of things, 507 vs 505/506, but it is basically the same as 504

back to 504 vs 502.... of course, it's restricted to 5w30 only AND the starting tBN is also a lot lower, something to consider vs 502, and the sulfur in the fuel

 

[rg200amp]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Can someone please verify this website is correct?

http://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php


It's actually saying that 504 superseded 503.01, the old "high performance" oil spec. The way I understand it is that 504 oils can be used on anything that calls for 502, but not the other way around. 504 does not technically "supersede" 502 but rather "supplements" it. The Lubrizol graphing tool shows 504 being stricter than 502 (and also placing emphasis on fuel economy).

Lubrizol's site actually shows that 502 was revised in 2005, wheres 504 was revised in 2004. VAG is still selling cars that call for VW 502 oil, like the new S4.


Whatever your VW/Audi calls for = what you should use.

/thread

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Originally Posted By: dparm
Can someone please verify this website is correct?

http://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php


It's actually saying that 504 superseded 503.01, the old "high performance" oil spec. The way I understand it is that 504 oils can be used on anything that calls for 502, but not the other way around. 504 does not technically "supersede" 502 but rather "supplements" it. The Lubrizol graphing tool shows 504 being stricter than 502 (and also placing emphasis on fuel economy).

Lubrizol's site actually shows that 502 was revised in 2005, wheres 504 was revised in 2004. VAG is still selling cars that call for VW 502 oil, like the new S4.


Whatever your VW/Audi calls for = what you should use.

/thread

Ironically, 505.01 is not an acceptable oil for the PD engines with fixed OCI's. This was the recommended oil for north america AND led to premature wear on the camshafts which drove the PD injectors. HDEO is a better choice

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Originally Posted By: dparm
Can someone please verify this website is correct?

http://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php


It's actually saying that 504 superseded 503.01, the old "high performance" oil spec. The way I understand it is that 504 oils can be used on anything that calls for 502, but not the other way around. 504 does not technically "supersede" 502 but rather "supplements" it. The Lubrizol graphing tool shows 504 being stricter than 502 (and also placing emphasis on fuel economy).

Lubrizol's site actually shows that 502 was revised in 2005, wheres 504 was revised in 2004. VAG is still selling cars that call for VW 502 oil, like the new S4.


Whatever your VW/Audi calls for = what you should use.

/thread

Yes, thank you.

I am merely interested in understanding all the different oil specs. I'm fairly comfortable with selecting oils for my own motor.

 

[UG_Passat]

http://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php -- it's basically correct in the short story.

502.00 was originally a mid-SAPS oil that was restricted to primarily 5w40 (with some 0w40 in there) weights only.

the revision to 502.00 opened up the multi-viscosity ranges AND allowed Low-SAPS to join the mix & overlapped 505.01 requirements also. Prior to that, 505.01 was its own oil (ie Castrol TXT 505.01)

when the C5 RS6 was available for the US market around 2004, technically, required 505.01 with ridiculously short OCI

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
502.00 was originally a mid-SAPS oil that was restricted to primarily 5w40 (with some 0w40 in there) weights only.

Interesting. What is the source of this info?

I thought the concept of mid-SAPs oils didn't even exist back in 1997 when the 502.00 spec was created...

 

[UG_Passat]

vw502.00 was revised early 2000's before the 2005 revision

 

[Quattro Pete]

Thanks, but you didn't answer my question.

 

[UG_Passat]

vw 502.00 specifications have a tendency to align with acea a3/b4 requirements

vw 502.00/505.00 (back when I had a 02 tdi), the appropriate acea a3/b4 revision was 1998 year which was mid-saps

acea a3/b4 with the 2004 revision introduced low-saps

1996 was probably high saps

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Originally Posted By: dparm
Can someone please verify this website is correct?

http://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php


It's actually saying that 504 superseded 503.01, the old "high performance" oil spec. The way I understand it is that 504 oils can be used on anything that calls for 502, but not the other way around. 504 does not technically "supersede" 502 but rather "supplements" it. The Lubrizol graphing tool shows 504 being stricter than 502 (and also placing emphasis on fuel economy).

Lubrizol's site actually shows that 502 was revised in 2005, wheres 504 was revised in 2004. VAG is still selling cars that call for VW 502 oil, like the new S4.


Whatever your VW/Audi calls for = what you should use.

/thread

Ironically, 505.01 is not an acceptable oil for the PD engines with fixed OCI's. This was the recommended oil for north america AND led to premature wear on the camshafts which drove the PD injectors. HDEO is a better choice


Except for the PDs that used 505.01 only and didn't fail, the ones that used 505.01 only and did fail, the ones that used HDEO 5w40 only and didn't fail, and the ones that used HDEO 5w40 only and did fail.

 

[pavelow]

VW/Audi and their oil specs are ridiculous to say the least, but if you own one of these cars, they are a necessary evil you have to deal with. In this day and age it seems almost snobbish to have them. lol

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: pavelow
VW/Audi and their oil specs are ridiculous to say the least, but if you own one of these cars, they are a necessary evil you have to deal with. In this day and age it seems almost snobbish to have them. lol


The reason they need them, especially in the US, is because of the generally lower quality of most oils.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: pavelow
VW/Audi and their oil specs are ridiculous to say the least, but if you own one of these cars, they are a necessary evil you have to deal with. In this day and age it seems almost snobbish to have them. lol


Mercedes and BMW too. Fiat also. And Porsche, Saab, Opel/Ford, Chrysler, Peugeot and Citroen. Probably some others.

 

[rg200amp]

Originally Posted By: pavelow
VW/Audi and their oil specs are ridiculous to say the least, but if you own one of these cars, they are a necessary evil you have to deal with. In this day and age it seems almost snobbish to have them. lol


Why?

It's "ridiculous" for a car maker to actually care enough about there engines and there customers to spend the time and money on R+D to see what kind of things a motor oil would need to offer the best combination of engine protection and oil life span.

Some car makers just recommend a oil weight and to follow the current API rating.

Nothing wrong with that.

But saying a car maker going out of their way to ensure optimal performance and protection of there cars is "ridiculous" is sorta ridiculous!!

 

[bruno]

And don't forget GM's Dexos spec .

Why any of these specs are ridiculous is beyond me .

 

[robertcope]

What would be ridiculous would be for an engine manufacturer not to tell me what type of oil I should be putting into their motor.

robert