VOA with TBN Pennzoil Yellow Bottle 5W-20 SN/GF-5

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Holy moly!

thumbsup2.gif


I got this VOA today for the Pennzoil Yellow Bottle (PYB) 5W-20 SN/GF-5. Moly is very high, as in the PYB 5W-30 SN/GF-5. The additive package seems to be identical within measurement error to that of PYB 5W-30 as reported at PQIA.

PYB SN/GF-5 is the highest-moly oil out there. As a bonus, since Infineum is an Exxon-Mobil/Shell company, chances are that the PYB moly is the Infineum's trinuclear kind. Since nothing beats trinuclear moly in friction reduction, antiwear, antiscuff, as well as cylinder-lining coating for oil-consumption reduction, this oil is hard to beat!

The starting TBN is also almost 9.0 and very strong.

Discuss!

voa_pyb_5w-20_sn_gf-5.jpg
 
By the way, boron -- another friction modifier -- is also quite high.

Certainly, the high calcium is pointing to a strong detergent pack as well.

High moly is clearly the highest strength of this oil though.
 
Thanks . Maybe I should drop the SHELL full synthetic SN 5w-20 and 5w-30 for the P.Y.B. 5w-20 ( cold months ) and 5w-30 for those warm/hot months in the YARIS .
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
By the way, boron -- another friction modifier -- is also quite high..

The Pennzoil authors of the FAQ that they sent to this site said boron in Ultra is for protection of seals and yellow metals. It is possibly used for the same purpose in this oil. There are wide variety of boronated additives that serve very different functions.
 
Looks great and being a Shell product it probably is. However, you really can't determine much about an oil by looking at a VOA.
 
Originally Posted By: JAG
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
By the way, boron -- another friction modifier -- is also quite high..

The Pennzoil authors of the FAQ that they sent to this site said boron in Ultra is for protection of seals and yellow metals. It is possibly used for the same purpose in this oil. There are wide variety of boronated additives that serve very different functions.

I think you're right. It's more likely to be a detergent/dispersant and perhaps also a seal conditioner than a friction modifier. Boric acid is also used as a friction-modifier and antiwear agent but I think it's more likely a detergent/dispersant (and perhaps also a seal conditioner). There is some discussion of borates in this patent.
 
I think it's always comforting to see, yet again, just how good PYB is. You have to smile, if you ever see someone buying this at a store. They might not know how good it is, but it truly is good!
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
]PYB SN/GF-5 is the highest-moly oil out there.[/b] As a bonus, since Infineum is an Exxon-Mobil/Shell company, chances are that the PYB moly is the Infineum's trinuclear kind.

I very much doubt Pennzoil is using the trinuclear moly in their conventional oil for a number of reasons but mainly because the concentration would not need to be as high.
It's a high moly oil but certainly not the highest moly oil out there. I'd be more inclined to believe that PU 5W-20 with 44 ppm of moly is the trinuclear type and therefore technically an effectively higher moly concentration.

But PYB has a good DI package and if this oil can be acquired cheaply, PU 5W-20 doesn't offer much over it. That's one reason why I've always considered 5W-20 primarily dino grade. If you want to up-grade to a synthetic oil go for a 0W-20 and get the benefits of a higher VI.
I've always considered the 5W-20 primarily a dino
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
]PYB SN/GF-5 is the highest-moly oil out there.[/b] As a bonus, since Infineum is an Exxon-Mobil/Shell company, chances are that the PYB moly is the Infineum's trinuclear kind.

I very much doubt Pennzoil is using the trinuclear moly in their conventional oil for a number of reasons but mainly because the concentration would not need to be as high.
It's a high moly oil but certainly not the highest moly oil out there. I'd be more inclined to believe that PU 5W-20 with 44 ppm of moly is the trinuclear type and therefore technically an effectively higher moly concentration.

But PYB has a good DI package and if this oil can be acquired cheaply, PU 5W-20 doesn't offer much over it. That's one reason why I've always considered 5W-20 primarily dino grade. If you want to up-grade to a synthetic oil go for a 0W-20 and get the benefits of a higher VI.
I've always considered the 5W-20 primarily a dino

I disagree. Last year I tried both Pennzoil Platinum GF-5 and Yellow Bottle GF-5 in the 5W-30 variety. The difference in moly between the two was obvious from how much more smoothly the car took of with the Yellow Bottle. Yellow Bottle has more of the same moly stuff. Try it and you will see the difference yourself.

Then, you can ask, why do they put more moly into the Yellow Bottle? The reason is not for the new-oil but the used-oil performance. Synthetics deteriorate slower than conventionals and maintain friction better with used oil. That's why you need more moly for the conventional -- for used-oil fuel economy.

It's not true that 50 ppm moly is enough with the trinuclear moly. While you get a lot of benefits with even 50 ppm trinuclear moly, full benefits actually happen around 200 ppm. See the presentation linked. So, the Yellow Bottle seems to have the optimal amount of trinuclear moly. Toyota 0W-20 GF-5 seems to have 100 ppm trincuclear moly for example -- better than Mobil 1 but worse than PYB.

Another reason why the synthetics have less moly is the price. Synthetics are already very costly to make and moly is the most expensive additive in the engine oil. If they put too much moly in a synthetic oil, the price becomes so high that no one can afford it or they can't make any money out of it.

I feel that my engine is running smoother everyday, with 500 miles being approached on oil. Probably the moly film on my wear surfaces is thickening with every mile. I don't think you can find any better oil than the GF-5 variety of the PYB. People pay a lot of money for moly additives, and it's not even for the oil-soluble organic kind. You won't get any more moly than with PYB. And you're getting it without any hassle.

Get the PYB GF-5 and have a blast! Don't be surprised if it performs better than your favorite synthetic!
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
]PYB SN/GF-5 is the highest-moly oil out there.[/b] As a bonus, since Infineum is an Exxon-Mobil/Shell company, chances are that the PYB moly is the Infineum's trinuclear kind.

I very much doubt Pennzoil is using the trinuclear moly in their conventional oil for a number of reasons but mainly because the concentration would not need to be as high.
It's a high moly oil but certainly not the highest moly oil out there. I'd be more inclined to believe that PU 5W-20 with 44 ppm of moly is the trinuclear type and therefore technically an effectively higher moly concentration.

But PYB has a good DI package and if this oil can be acquired cheaply, PU 5W-20 doesn't offer much over it. That's one reason why I've always considered 5W-20 primarily dino grade. If you want to up-grade to a synthetic oil go for a 0W-20 and get the benefits of a higher VI.
I've always considered the 5W-20 primarily a dino

I disagree. Last year I tried both Pennzoil Platinum GF-5 and Yellow Bottle GF-5 in the 5W-30 variety. The difference in moly between the two was obvious from how much more smoothly the car took of with the Yellow Bottle. Yellow Bottle has more of the same moly stuff. Try it and you will see the difference yourself.

Then, you can ask, why do they put more moly into the Yellow Bottle? The reason is not for the new-oil but the used-oil performance. Synthetics deteriorate slower than conventionals and maintain friction better with used oil. That's why you need more moly for the conventional -- for used-oil fuel economy.

It's not true that 50 ppm moly is enough with the trinuclear moly. While you get a lot of benefits with even 50 ppm trinuclear moly, full benefits actually happen around 200 ppm. See the presentation linked. So, the Yellow Bottle seems to have the optimal amount of trinuclear moly. Toyota 0W-20 GF-5 seems to have 100 ppm trincuclear moly for example -- better than Mobil 1 but worse than PYB.

Another reason why the synthetics have less moly is the price. Synthetics are already very costly to make and moly is the most expensive additive in the engine oil. If they put too much moly in a synthetic oil, the price becomes so high that no one can afford it or they can't make any money out of it.

I feel that my engine is running smoother everyday, with 500 miles being approached on oil. Probably the moly film on my wear surfaces is thickening with every mile. I don't think you can find any better oil than the GF-5 variety of the PYB. People pay a lot of money for moly additives, and it's not even for the oil-soluble organic kind. You won't get any more moly than with PYB. And you're getting it without any hassle.

Get the PYB GF-5 and have a blast! Don't be surprised if it performs better than your favorite synthetic!
smile.gif



You're making to many generalizations IMO. Each of the oils you mentioned use entirely different base oils and therefore will use different amounts of additives. You can't determine that much from a VOA.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
You can't determine that much from a VOA.

I will also have a UOA in the spring.

Moly is always good. If everything else is given the same, more moly is simply always less wear, better fuel economy, less oil consumption, and smoother-running engine. The effectiveness of trinuclear moly increases up to 200+ ppm moly and, with less potent forms, you need more for maximum effectiveness.

I understand your point that there are all kinds of other ingredients, but ZDDP and moly are the most I am concerned with usually. Also, I don't expect Pennzoil -- Shell's top premium brand -- to use anything short of the absolutely best detergent - inhibitor package available to the mankind. If there is a generous amount of trinuclear moly on top of that, you have the best additive package your can get.
smile.gif
 
Well, I'm not a formulator or chemist so I couldn't really tell you but maybe you are. I have no doubt it's a very good oil. Most GF-5 oild are more than sufficient.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
]


Another reason why the synthetics have less moly is the price. Synthetics are already very costly to make and moly is the most expensive additive in the engine oil. If they put too much moly in a synthetic oil, the price becomes so high that no one can afford it or they can't make any money out of it.
Get the PYB GF-5 and have a blast! Don't be surprised if it performs better than your favorite synthetic!
smile.gif


Again you don't know what type of moly Pennzoil is using in their dino oil. But if you're so sure it's the trinuclear type try and get confirmation from Pennzoil, they are after all a site supporter. If it is, I'm sure they'll say so. If it's not you'll get the usual "the formulation is proprietary response".

In Canada PYB 5W-20 is no deal as it is virtually the same price as the far superior 0W-20 from Toyota and the Idemitsu made Honda 0W-20. We are still getting the preferred SM GF-4 versions of these synthetic oils which contain 650 ppm and 1065 ppm of organic moly respectively.
 
Well, here is my question and the reply I got:

----------------------------

Hello,

I have the following question. I am using Pennzoil Yellow Bottle 5W-20 GF-5/SN conventional motor oil. According to a VOA I had done, it has about 246 ppm Mo. Is this moly the trinuclear kind (three Mo atoms per molecule) made by Infineum or is it some other type of moly?

Thanks,

Gokhan

----------------------------

Dear Gokhan,

Unfortunately, we are unable to discuss our supplier or formulation.


Regards,
Technical Service, sn
 
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