Apparently my Cruze takes Dex-VI, and it's a MT!

[sciphi]

Being curious and the owner's manual being unhelpful, I put in an email to GM asking what fluid my Cruze's M32 6-speed manual transmission takes. It's a valid question considering the nearest GM dealers are 20+ miles away, and I don't routinely go by them.

Here's a paste of the applicable sections of the email:


"Greetings from the Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center! This is a follow-up regarding your inquiry on GM part number 19259104.


I was able to verify that the only thing you need to check on non-GM manual transmission fluids is that is should meet the GM Dexron VI specifications."

So my Cruze takes Dex-VI in its MT. And we've analyzed that fluid 6 ways from yesterday. At least it makes assembly at Lordstown a bit easier to only use 1 fluid no matter what. It also opens up a lot of full-syn options to replace the semi-syn Petro-Canada Dex-VI this spring once the car has more miles on it.

I thought it was interesting, and wanted to share.

 

[mpvue]

AFAIK, most all manual transmissions take auto tranny fluid now. my 'o4 VUE did, my mazda5, corvettes, camaros, mustangs, etc.

 

[exranger06]

The surprise doesn't come from a manual trans using ATF, it's from GM spec-ing Dex VI, because GM previously issued a TSB specifically saying NOT to use Dex VI in a manual trans.

 

[wkcars]

Are you sure your manual doesn't say what fluid to use in your transmission...double check the recommended fluids section in the owners manual, should be in section/chapter 11 of the manual.

 

[JHZR2]

I just noticed that redline is recommending their dex vi for BMW MTs that take the latest BMW spec fluid.

 

[sciphi]

Originally Posted By: wkcars
Are you sure your manual doesn't say what fluid to use in your transmission...double check the recommended fluids section in the owners manual, should be in section/chapter 11 of the manual.


I checked. It doesn't say what grade or anything, only to use GM fluid part number 19259104. That's why I asked GM in the first place, seeing how the manual was so vague.

I guess the recommendation varies from MT to MT. That makes semi-sense, considering the MT's can be quite different beasts from vehicle to vehicle.

 

[wkcars]

I guess GM is getting worse and worse with their manuals, they use to give you the specification and a GM part number, now all they give you is a part number. Seems like they are trying to keep people from getting aftermarket fluids.

 

[sciphi]

Originally Posted By: wkcars
I guess GM is getting worse and worse with their manuals, they use to give you the specification and a GM part number, now all they give you is a part number. Seems like they are trying to keep people from getting aftermarket fluids.


Licensed Dex-VI really isn't aftermarket. The spec is pretty tight on that one. Even Amsoil and Redline hew pretty close to that spec (at least for viscosity) with their ATF's designed to be used in Dex-VI automatic transmissions.

Likely they don't want some Jiffy Lube yahoo an upsale away from a bonus putting in 75w-90 GF-5 gear oil when it really needs a GF-4 oil. Lots of people will read the weight, and not the specification. "Oh, it's only 1 off, what's the difference?" Look at the horror stories of sludged VW's, Mercedes, and BMW's because their owners put in whatever cheap 5w-30 instead of the more expensive manufacturer-spec 5w-30.

I'll likely drink the GM Kool-Aid on this one and stick with a licensed full-synthetic Dex-VI. There are lots of choices even within that category.

 

[cp3]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
The surprise doesn't come from a manual trans using ATF, it's from GM spec-ing Dex VI, because GM previously issued a TSB specifically saying NOT to use Dex VI in a manual trans.


That makes sense for previous units designed for DexIII but this is probably a new design built to use DexVI. Could be wrong but I don't recall any previous GMs with a 6-speed transaxle, although they did call it "non-GM". Any idea who makes it or how old the design is?

sciphi, not sure I'd say Kool-Aid in the case of a new car under warranty. DexVI is supposed to be pretty good stuff anyway, isn't it?

 

[MrHorspwer]

There's two things wrong here.

First, I was able to find the recommended manual transmission fluid in the vehicle owner's manual.

Second, 19259104 IS the correct part number for the fluid. However, that part number is most certainly NOT for Dex VI. Go to a dealer and ask for 19259104 and you will be handed a bottle that says "Manual Transmission Fluid" on the label. This is not Dex VI.

If you'd like, I can send you a print of the factory owners manual, service manual, and parts catalog. Also, it is a fluid-for-life trans. You'll be taken aback when you see the drain and fill procedure. Have a measuring cup and a tap handy.

 

[Rand]

Manual Transmission
Castrol BOT 0402 Transmission Fluid (GM Part No. 88862472, in
Canada 88862473).
owners manual page 344

2011 cruze manual

here is the data sheet for castrol bot 402 pdf

Quote:
DESCRIPTION / APPLICATION:
Castrol BOT 402 is a fully synthetic SAE 75W-85 manual transmission fluid.
Castrol BOT 402 can be recommended for most manual transmissions where API GL-4 lubricants are required. Castrol BOT 402 meets Opel’s requirements for use in the manual transmission of all front wheel drive (FWD) and rear wheel drive (RWD) passenger cars worldwide.
BENEFITS:
• Smoother and easier gear shift due to a combination of reduced shifting forces and optimal synchronisation.
• Reduced torque loss increases efficiency over all transmission load ranges.
• Increased wear protection of synchronizer and bearings during startup phase.
• Fuel saving potential – less fuel consumption means lower emissions.
• Improved shift comfort and prevention of “synchroniser clash” during gear change at a wide range of ambient temperatures and operating conditions.
• Extended synchroniser life reduces warranty and maintenance costs.
• Optimal lubrication of transmission components enhances performance and life.
• Maintains noise reduction (eg : in-gear rattle; idling rattle), improved driver satisfaction.
• Excellent transmission cleanliness and longer oil life permit decreased servicing.
• Longer oil and component life permit extended drain and decreased servicing.
• Helps protect surface of moving parts, extending transmission life.
• Helps avoid oil leakages, reducing repair costs.
• Better environmental compatibility – easier waste oil disposal and recyclability.
FEATURES:
• Excellent cold flow properties combined with balanced frictional characteristics.
• Excellent synchroniser performance and maintained frictional properties during lifetime.
• High shear stability.
• Excellent thermal and oxidative stability.
• Temperature reduction through reduced friction.
• Good anti-pitting behaviour
• Good seal compatibility.
• Free from chlorine and heavy metals.

TYPICAL CHARACTERISTICS:
Castrol BOT 402
Product Code
12625
Density at 15°C (kg/l)
0.871
Colour
Red
Viscosity at 40°C (mm²/s)
75.6
Viscosity at 100°C (mm²s)
13.1
Viscosity Index
178
Viscosity at -10ºC (mm²s)
1.435
Brookfield Viscosity at -40ºC (mPa.s)
48.200
Pour Point (ºC)
-45
Flash Point (ºC)
220
FZG A8.3/90 (Load Stag


basically its a lightweight gl-4 mtf

that took aprox 4min to find.. google is your friend with this kind of stuff.

 

[sciphi]

Rand, thank you for posting that!

My 2012 owner's manual does not specify that Castrol fluid. It just specifies the part number posted earlier. That Castrol fluid is FAR different than Dex-VI. I doubt that GM totally redesigned the transmission from 2011 to 2012, so it taking a 75w-85 GL-4 full synthetic gear oil makes far more sense.

It looks like GM dumbed down the 2012 owner's manual. They also listed a tool-less TPMS reset procedure in the early 2011 manuals that did not make the revised 2011 manual, nor the 2012 manual.

And, just how bad can the fill procedure be? Is it VW/Audi manual transmission bad?

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
Rand, thank you for posting that!

My 2012 owner's manual does not specify that Castrol fluid. It just specifies the part number posted earlier. That Castrol fluid is FAR different than Dex-VI. I doubt that GM totally redesigned the transmission from 2011 to 2012, so it taking a 75w-85 GL-4 full synthetic gear oil makes far more sense.

It looks like GM dumbed down the 2012 owner's manual. They also listed a tool-less TPMS reset procedure in the early 2011 manuals that did not make the revised 2011 manual, nor the 2012 manual.

And, just how bad can the fill procedure be? Is it VW/Audi manual transmission bad?


the 2012 online manual isnt available yet. but I doubt its changed much

 

[NateDN10]

They're different part numbers, though. Rand's manual says part number 88862472, while sciphi is saying 19259104.

The 88862472 fluid was back-specced for MTs that previously required Dexron III (like the one in my '05 Cobalt).

I can't find any information on Google for 19259104, but it could be different.

 

[NateDN10]

Correction! The MTs that previously specced Dexron III should now use GM 88861800. The collective wisdom of the Internet figures that this is probably just renamed Dexron 3.

I saw the "888" in the beginning of Rand's part number and figured it was the same thing. Don't want to be spreading misinformation!

 

[mechtech2]

Redline also has an excellent 75-85 manual trans lube.
ATF in manual trannys is a compromise by the mfr.
Good cold weather shifting, but not the best for wear and shifting.
Friction modified the wrong way.

Yes, I know there are very special manual trannys with oil pumps and other specialties that need specific ATF.

 

[MrHorspwer]

The fluid spec changed between 2011 and 2012. 19259104 is a new P/N for 2012, that's why it doesn't show up in a google search. There is a GM bulletin concerning the 2012 Cruze MT fluid. 19259104 is the new fluid. It is referred to as a light-viscosity manual transmission fluid and if the fluid is unavailable, use 88862472. This makes sense, since the transmission is unchanged from MY11 to MY12.

What I know: It is not DEX III, it is not DEX VI, and it is not Castrol BOT. What is it? I don't know, but this is what I've gleaned from the parts catalog and service information. Per GM, you should be safe with the Castrol though.

The service procedure: Remove and discard the drain plug. Drain the fluid for 10 minutes and measure the fluid that was drained. Re-cut the drain threads and install a new drain plug. Remove the fill plug and fill with the same amount of fluid that was drained.

As for the service procedure... remove and discard the drain plug. Drain the fluid for 10 minutes and measure what was drained. Recut the drain threads with a tap and insert a new drain plug. Fill trans with the same amount of fluid that was drained.

 

[sciphi]

Ahh. That's a bear of a procedure. Oh well, a tap and die set was on the "to buy" list of tools, and the drain hole should be well-lubed from the draining MTF.

MrHP, thanks for posting!

 

[exranger06]

Why does the drain hole need to be re-tapped? If the original plug was threaded in there, shouldn't the new drain plug (<--you can't reuse the drain plug either??) thread right in too?

 

[aquariuscsm]

Tremec told me that they their trannies need ATF for the carbon fiber synchros and needle bearings.