Old 22RE Help

[Vspec]

Purchased last week a 90s Toyota Pickup with 4WD and the 22RE 4 banger.

Truck is in great shape physically, minor rust that im working out and the interior is immaculate.

The motor smokes pretty bad though, I have no idea what kind of oil was used previously only the dates and mileage of when it was changed.

I already switched over to Rotella 5w40 syn with a oversized PureONE Oil filter + 1 Quart of MMO.

Im thinking (seeing how the blue smoke persists) its probably valve seals but I really want to try the following.

Dropping the current fill after 1k and then filling up with 3.5 quarts of the cheapest oil and fresh filter I can buy, and replacing the last quart with B12 Chemtool (Oil Capacity is 4.5 Quarts), idling for say 15-20 minutes and then dumping that and refilling with Mobil 1 High Mileage 15w40.

Drive another 1k, dump that and then refill with Mobil 1 HM 15w40 and add some Kreen, steady that off until things seem good and keep hitting it with the Mobil 1 HM 15w40 and MMO.

Thoughts?


Edited: 22RE has 207xxx miles.

 

[addyguy]

I'd give the T6 and MMO mix some time to see if it helps. Run it for 3k, and see how smoke/consumption is.

Your plan just sounds expensive and unnecessary - maybe with a bit of MMO cleaning, the engine will settle down.

 

[expat]

Have you done a compression test?
Is it smoking when under load? or on over-run?

 

[bepperb]

You've got to pull the valve cover to see what you're dealing with. That's a lot of expensive additives, IMO. What if things are clean, but the stem seals are just worn?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
I'd give the T6 and MMO mix some time to see if it helps. Run it for 3k, and see how smoke/consumption is.

Your plan just sounds expensive and unnecessary - maybe with a bit of MMO cleaning, the engine will settle down.


+1 Or as mentioned pull a valve cover and have a look, if you have the ability, desire, or the $$ to do so. Maybe you can actually see what you're up against.

 

[zyxelenator]

First of all check PVC, it might be clogged. After kreen run, try to do kreen soak with other half of can. Add 1-3 oz in each spark plug well, let it soak for at least overnight, change/clean plugs. Spin engine without plugs, re install plugs. Also taking off valve cover and taking look(pictures)/cleaning won't hurt. My oil consumption after manually cleaning sludge and kreen soak, dramatically reduced. Leftover kreen use later on, or dump in gas tank. You might want use Maxlife 10w-40 after first kreen run, since it would be closer to winter time. 10w vs 15w much better in winter time. After your cleaning plan is completed, I would buy gallon jugs of T6 and add 0.5 quart of MMO and use it year round.

 

[zyxelenator]

P.S. mine looked like valve seals too. Clouds on start up.

 

[Vspec]

So Update.

I pulled the Valve Cover and dropped the pan, it didnt look that bad, I cleaned up what I could and replaced the Valve Cover Gasket.

Just an FYI, i've already done the PCV and all the regular stuff most people do with the exception of the PITA Fuel Filter.

Today, I dropped the current fill and started doing a piston soak, ive gone through two full cans of B12 Chemtool between the four cylinders. I can hear the B12 dripping out the drain plug and into my catch can at present.

Im going to fill the motor with 3.5 quarts of Havoline 20w50 tomorrow and 1 quart of B12 Chemtool and let it idle for 10-15 and hope for the best, drop that and refil with the M1 HM as I had originally planned.

At present I have not completed a compression check. I have no appreciable coolant usage at this time.

The smoke happens on start up, and under load. Its always blueish in tint.

Its gonna be a fun next couple days!

 

[expat]

I'm a little mystified at all the oil and additives you are pouring into (and out of) this engine, and in short succession!
22R's are not commonly oil burners, but like all engines they have rings (and cyl bores) that wear, and valve seals that wear, tear or get hard.
Typically Valve seals pass oil during over run (when you back off the throttle) and rings can cause oil burning when the engine is under load.
A compression test may tell you a lot about this engine!
What do you see as the future for this truck?
Is the smoke something that MUST be drastically reduced immediately (the additives you have used may need some time)
If the engine is worn, and you consider the truck a keeper. 22R's are still inexpensive to come by (used) and rebuild kits are very inexpensive ($200)
Seriously, (and I say this kindly) I don't understand Dumping 3.5 quarts of Havoline and B12 after 10-15 minutes!

 

[Vspec]

Expat,

Im working towards getting a compression test done.

Im aware at 207xxx miles the motor might just smoke from age, however I want to take every possible step from my position to try and minimize the smoking as it can be quite bad at times.

This truck is a spare beater that im trying to clean up and restore to the best of my ability while not spending a ton of money. "A ton of money" is subjective to each person and as of now I haven't in my opinion spent alot of money on trying to stop this smoking issue.

The havoline is inexpensive and B12 Chemtool is too aggressive an additive to drive the vehicle with, its a 15 minute flush due to its solvent strength.

I figure at best I might reduce or cure all together the smoking, at worst I've spent about 45 dollars in oil and additive, I can accept that at present.

I will post up the compression test numbers ASAP.

 

[expat]

Fair enough.
Just, basically, I don't believe you can make 'a silk purse out of a sows ear' by pouring additives in.
Although you can sometimes 'get lucky' normally throwing good money after bad is counter productive.
Even before you do a compression test, if you run the engine with the oil filler removed, and place your had over the opening, can you feel much Blow-by?
As a Beater truck (and I would not normally suggest this) I might consider Honeing the heck out of the cyl bores and throwing in a new set of rings (kind of an old school Ring job) or even, if real bad and because prices are so low, one size oversize Pistons and rings.
22r lower ends are pretty much Bullet proof, but you could also throw in some new rod bearings while your at it.

 

[Vspec]

Compression Check Completed.

Cylinder 1 - 180 PSI
Cylinder 2 - 182 PSI
Cylinder 3 - 180 PSI
Cylinder 4 - 179 PSI

From what I gathered stock compression when new as 175 PSI, assuming my gauge might not be the best im not concerned at the high numbers, more glad that they are all within a few PSI of each other.

 

[expat]

So, I guess the Valve stem seals may be the culprit. Unfortunately, on a 22r you risk disturbing the head gasket if you replace the seals with the head in situ :-(

 

[Vspec]

Sadly so,

Hopefully the HM Mobil 1 along with a couple rounds of MMO and maybe Kreen over the next few thousand miles will help out.

 

[zyxelenator]

Also give a try to LM MoS2 and LM Oil Saver. You can use them both at same time, and you can get the at NAPA or order thru them.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: expat
So, I guess the Valve stem seals may be the culprit. Unfortunately, on a 22r you risk disturbing the head gasket if you replace the seals with the head in situ :-(



But there may be a way (I have not tried it)

Remove the head bolts and the valve rocker frame (careful, do not let the engine turn, or disturb the head an break the Gasket seal) then, replace the head bolts using short sections of pipe (1/2" copper pipe may do) as spacers. this may allow you to turn the engine over without compression lifting the head and breaking the gasket seal.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: expat
So, I guess the Valve stem seals may be the culprit. Unfortunately, on a 22r you risk disturbing the head gasket if you replace the seals with the head in situ :-(



But there may be a way (I have not tried it)

Remove the head bolts and the valve rocker frame (careful, do not let the engine turn, or disturb the head an break the Gasket seal) then, replace the head bolts using short sections of pipe (1/2" copper pipe may do) as spacers. this may allow you to turn the engine over without compression lifting the head and breaking the gasket seal.


Correction; Removing the spark plugs will, of course, prevent compression.
I should not post late at night.
When I remove a head, I always leave the plugs in to let compression break the gasket seal.
There is also an old trick of threading string into the cyl bore to prevent the valve dropping down, but on a large capacity cyl like the 22r you'd probably need a lot of string!

 

[Vspec]

I'll update this thread again after some time has passed and I've been through a few OCIs to see if anything helps lower the smoking amount.

If it comes to the point of replacing the Valve stem seals then i'll probably pull the head and do the HG and have some minor head work done.