Made in Germany......

[OVERKILL]

So, this is day three of our new Agfa X-Ray machine install. I've noticed something with a lot of the components that come with this thing:

Made in Germany.

Now of course, Agfa isn't a German company. But apparently their Medical Imaging division is headed up in Munich.

Guys in the IT field, when is the last time you saw an AC Adapter that was made in the USA? When was the last time you saw a media converter made in the USA?

Check this out:

Even the cables were German-made.

So what's our excuse? This frustrates me to see that a first-world nation can continue to successfully produce things that we, as North Americans have out-sourced to China.

Oh, and not surprisingly.... The quality is superb.

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
So, this is day three of our new Agfa X-Ray machine install. I've noticed something with a lot of the components that come with this thing:

Made in Germany.

Now of course, Agfa isn't a German company. But apparently their Medical Imaging division is headed up in Munich.




from wikipedia:

1867 The company Aktiengesellschaft für Anilinfabrikation (Corporation for Aniline Production) was founded in Rummelsburg (now in the Lichtenberg borough of Berlin) as a manufacturer of dyes and stains. It became a public limited company in 1873. The founders were Paul Mendelssohn Bartholdy (son of composer Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy) and Carl Alexander von Martius.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin-Rummelsburg

 

[Bluestream]

The fact that we have outsourced production of many simple devices is a sign of an advanced economy believe it or not. Outsourcing started in the 50 and 60's with the textile industry and then the electronics industry (TV's, radios) I heard the same complaints back then as I hear now, but Japan was the bad guy not China. Our first color TV was a 19" Zenith that was bought in 1968 for $975. That would be $4000 in todays currency, and look what we can buy a TV (much better) for today. Since then more advanced jobs and companies like Oracle, Intel, microsoft, Cisco and so on. These industries have filled the gap for the manufacturing jobs that left. Small consolation if your job is the one that was terminated...

 

[Mr Nice]

Lots of high end medical equipment is made in Germany. I have a friend that works for Zeiss and their surgical microscopes for brain and spine surgery cost $200,000

OVERK1LL,

I take it you work in a hospital ?

 

[PandaBear]

The excuse is if you are willing to pay medical equipment price you can make anything you want anywhere.

How much do you pay for the cable that's made in Germany? and how many units do they make in a year? oh, you mean hundreds million? no? you must mean a hundred thousand then. no? what? hundred?

 

[Eddie]

And high end optical equipment.

 

[cchase]

Corporations don't produce products in China when they want it to be as good as possible.

Nobody ever outsourced anything for quality, as the saying goes.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Guys in the IT field, when is the last time you saw an AC Adapter that was made in the USA? When was the last time you saw a media converter made in the USA?

I am thinking somewhere about the 12th...of never! For the last 25+ years they all had something on them like "Made in " Err..at least the ones from Compaq (now HP), IBM (now Lenovo), Dell, Toshiba, Sony, et. al.

 

[tom slick]

A lot of medical equipment is made in USA. A local employer of over 100 people produces precision sheet metal products, 90% of which are enclosures for medical equipment.

Another local company makes gas purification products. They have been working 60 hr weeks for over a year. Main customer base? Asian electronics manufacturers, especially TV manufactures. Their products are used in the production of LCD screens.

 

[Jim 5]

Wow, I clicked on this thread with the hopes of seeing a product that is not made in China. Viewing such a product is a rare treat!

I for one would pay double for a refridgerator, washer/dryer or dishwasher ("durable goods") made in North America, Japan or Germany that was made out of quality components.

Instead all of the parts are outsourced. You pay half price and in exchange you get a product has 1/7th the useful life.

I truly believe if Toyota/Honda/Mercedes or [insert name of company you believe makes quality items] or some other company with a reputation for quality (let's not debate this point, it could be any company), with a warranty to back it up made "Durable Goods" durable again, they'd do a booming business. Even at double the current prices which are lower than I remember them being 15 years ago.

There are plenty of companies prospering with the business model of selling a superior product at a high price, and not even trying to compete on price with the overseas facsimilies. I'm thinking of companies like Leupold (maker of high quality, lifetime guaranteed shooting optics). Their prices are high, but there is no shortage of people buying.

I hope our economy evolves to the point where whatever you want to buy, there is available at a higher price a good quality alternative. I'm thinking of something that costs 1.5 to 2.5 times as much, but offers significantly better value than the increase in price.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
Now of course, Agfa isn't a German company


It doesn't get much more German than AGFA. I just bought some Hazet ratchets right from the factory and even saw the 1/2" made from beginning to end, German quality at its best.
Germany is very aware that you cant have a thriving stable economy without manufacturing, a U.S. type service based economy is a house of cards and we see how well that's doing,
who would have thought 20 yrs ago that Americans would have to hitch hike into space with the Russians.

 

[Skid]

Labor laws, environmental laws, workers comp... make it difficult to manufacture in the U.S. If you were making the decision to build a factory somewhere, would you pick the U.S.?

 

[Bluestream]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Now of course, Agfa isn't a German company


It doesn't get much more German than AGFA. I just bought some Hazet ratchets right from the factory and even saw the 1/2" made from beginning to end, German quality at its best.
Germany is very aware that you cant have a thriving stable economy without manufacturing, a U.S. type service based economy is a house of cards and we see how well that's doing,
who would have thought 20 yrs ago that Americans would have to hitch hike into space with the Russians.


I disagree with you. Lots of high end products are made in the USA, (medical, industrial, high tech) its the common consumer products that have left. AS for Going into space on a Russian rocket , nothing wrong with that. In fact they make a very good vehicle for this use at a reasonable cost. That's what a global economy does, things get sources to those who can do them well. As for products made in Germany, I don't see very many of them other than cars. Look at companies like Applied Materials, John Deere, and Caterpillar. World class producers that sell around the globe, because they are the best at what they do. Let china make the brake rotors and ac adapters...

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Jim 5
I for one would pay double for a refridgerator, washer/dryer or dishwasher ("durable goods") made in North America, Japan or Germany that was made out of quality components.


I think you need to pay more. Subzero is still made in the US as far as I know.

Originally Posted By: Trav
Germany is very aware that you cant have a thriving stable economy without manufacturing, a U.S. type service based economy is a house of cards and we see how well that's doing,
who would have thought 20 yrs ago that Americans would have to hitch hike into space with the Russians.


Germany is also outsourcing, to the US, China, etc. They keep the high end premium products made in their own country for export, but they also outsource a lot of the lower end garbage production (i.e. VW cars made in Mexico, my Bosch range that's made in China).

If you look at the industrial equipment we export, we do make a lot of stuff here as well (i.e. a huge percentage of the semiconductor manufacturing equipments).

 

[Trajan]

Place I use to work at made catheters sets. They got a good deal on ones made in China. They *all* failed quality control tests.

So, of course, the specs were re-written so they'd pass.

 

[Astro14]

While Germany is an exporting nation...the largest manufacturing nation in the world. That's right, the largest in the world is...

The United States of America!

Of course, since it's measured in value...currency changes and changes in output could shift the balance from the US to China this year...but the US is still the biggest.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/21/news/economy/china_us_manufacturing/index.htm

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Loobed
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
So, this is day three of our new Agfa X-Ray machine install. I've noticed something with a lot of the components that come with this thing:

Made in Germany.

Now of course, Agfa isn't a German company. But apparently their Medical Imaging division is headed up in Munich.




from wikipedia:

1867 The company Aktiengesellschaft für Anilinfabrikation (Corporation for Aniline Production) was founded in Rummelsburg (now in the Lichtenberg borough of Berlin) as a manufacturer of dyes and stains. It became a public limited company in 1873. The founders were Paul Mendelssohn Bartholdy (son of composer Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy) and Carl Alexander von Martius.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin-Rummelsburg





From Agfa's website:

http://agfa.com/en/co/about_us/history/index.jsp

Quote:
History

140 years of experience

The history of Agfa goes back to the nineteenth century and is a long and illustrous record of innovation and technological leadership. A Belgian 'photo products' business and a German colour dye manufacturer joined forces and grew into an internationally renowned company in the graphic and healthcare industries.

*snip

1894: The birth of 'L. Gevaert & Cie'
In 1890, the 22-year-old Lieven Gevaert established his own workshop in Antwerp (Belgium), which was mainly used for manufacturing calcium paper for photography. Barely four years later, the businessman Armand Seghers helped to establish the limited stock company 'L. Gevaert & Cie'. The starting capital amounted to just 20,000 Belgian francs (500 Euro).

*snip

1920: The conversion to a new name: 'Gevaert Photo Producten N.V.'
The success of Gevaert could not be stopped. In 1920, the group was renamed 'Gevaert Photo Producten N.V.'. While the starting capital in the early years of Gevaert was still moderate, it had now grown to 15 million Belgian francs (375,000 Euro).

*snip

1947: X-rays after World War II
Being also a manufacturer of various types of X-ray films, Gevaert launched a new assortment on the market. These products had higher sensitivity, better contrast, brightness, and wider exposure margins. Once again the medical world enthused over the Gevaert X-ray products.

*snip

1964: A historical marriage
Not only was it the 125th anniversary of photography, but 1964 was also the year of the big merger between Gevaert and Agfa. In early 1964, Agfa AG, a 100% subsidiary of Bayer merged with Gevaert Photo Producten N.V. In doing so, two new operating companies were established on July 1st, and the two partners each held a 50% stake: Gevaert-Agfa N.V. in Mortsel (Belgium) and Agfa-Gevaert AG in Leverkusen (Germany).


Sorry, I was thinking of their medical imaging arm as being from Belgium and completely forgot that the other half of the company is indeed German.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream

AS for Going into space on a Russian rocket , nothing wrong with that. In fact they make a very good vehicle for this use at a reasonable cost.


I don't know about the Russian rocket. I can tell you about Russian helicopters.

Following the cyclone that wiped out Bangladesh, the US and USSR sent helicopters to aide the citizens and distribute food, tents, blankets etc...

The US pilots took the Soviets up in their UH-1s figuring that the Soviets had already reverse engineered the Hueys from Vietnam. There probably weren't any real secrets about it anymore. The Soviet pilots took their turns flying the Hueys and when they landed they went stoic and walked away in silence. No offer was made to let the US pilots fly their Mi-4 Hounds.

It took some liquoring up, but the Soviet pilots finally told the Army aviators why. They were embarrassed. They couldn't believe that a helicopter was built like that. The Huey was like a Swiss watch to them. The Hound was like rocks and sticks. And this was just a UH-1 Huey.


As for the original post, I was just suprised to see that it had actual words for instructions. Not a completely indecipherable pictograms like the dashboards of many German cars.

 

[rg200amp]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


So what's our excuse? This frustrates me to see that a first-world nation can continue to successfully produce things that we, as North Americans have out-sourced to China.

Oh, and not surprisingly.... The quality is superb.


Germany has had a very VERY fantastic engineering mindset.

Take that, with the shambles they were in after WWII, they had nothing else to do but work and invest in the engineering and manufacturing to rebuild their economy.

North America was on easy street. After the cuban missle crises, things where relaxed, kick back, and enjoyable.

We are way to fat and happy to be manufacturing things when china will do it on pennies on the dollar!

Sad but, it is the way we are.

There are MANY people saying "I only buy American" and "America has to stop importing everything, we should build it here".

Too them I say:

Put on a hard hat, a set of rubber gloves, and get a job in a manufacturing plant. You'll find most go silent.

I do not want to manufacture. You don't want to manufacture.

My family members dont want to. My neighbor's dont want to. My friends don't want to.

So. The reason we do not manufacture our own goods is because we do not want to. And the few people that do do it in the states are either in a union and the cost the company spends on the work force is to great and/or the general cost of doing business in the state's is too high (i.e. taxes, fees, insurance, ect. . .) , they relay that price to the consumer. The end consumer, for the most part, will just op for the cheaper imported one.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
The fact that we have outsourced production of many simple devices is a sign of an advanced economy believe it or not. Outsourcing started in the 50 and 60's with the textile industry and then the electronics industry (TV's, radios) I heard the same complaints back then as I hear now, but Japan was the bad guy not China. Our first color TV was a 19" Zenith that was bought in 1968 for $975. That would be $4000 in todays currency, and look what we can buy a TV (much better) for today. Since then more advanced jobs and companies like Oracle, Intel, microsoft, Cisco and so on. These industries have filled the gap for the manufacturing jobs that left. Small consolation if your job is the one that was terminated...


So Germany doesn't have an advanced economy? Explain.

Everything from regular power cords, media converters.... you know the little stuff that we outsource to China, I have now seen "made in Germany".

And there are plenty of advanced jobs and companies in Germany. But apparently, they also still make a lot of the little stuff too. Strange how a country the size of New Brunswick has been able to thrive at manufacturing everything from big to small (and yes, I know there are exceptions and some Germany companies outsource to China too) yet North America is an economic wasteland with a growing class of desperate unemployed people.... Those people could be making power cables, media converters, IC's....etc, instead of some guy in China being paid pennies as the US debt increases.

I don't see anything wrong with the notion that a large portion of the people currently on welfare could be working, making a decent wage (I'm sure the Germans make a decent wage) producing these items in modern North American factories, bolstering our economy and stopping the financial drain of social assistance.