Marvel Mystery Oil - My test of MMO & mpg
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: badtlc
What? Moderator of what? I'm an electrical engineer, not a tribologist. How on Earth could I be working for the competition? My company doesn't engineer anything related to automotive, let alone lubrication.
OH wait, I get it. When facts don't back up your schtick, it is time to start name calling and making up lies about folks? Class move.
Notice I used IIRC? Aren't you an A-Rx moderator, or you were a mod for them? That's what I was referring too, when I mentioned working for the competition. Either way you make it a point to attack MMO in these threads. BTW What name/names did I call you? I did warn the OP of MMO bashers early on, but I didn't give names, no need too.
Schtick? Yea right. LOL
As someone who is MMO-Agnostic, your bias is clearly showing. Where was he "bashing" MMO? He simply stated that a 17% in fuel economy seems unreasonable from an upper cylinder lube alone (he's 100% correct), and the he didn't notice a difference? You responded with a tired strawman that "well, I guess everyone who noticed positive results is wrong"...
Tracking fuel economy is tricky business. No offense to the OP, I don't doubt he experienced an increase in the tanks when he used MMO, but it's still tough to account for the variables, particularly wind/traffic conditions and differences in acceleration. You simply need more controlled conditions (like a closed track) or a much, much bigger data set to draw any conclusions.
Originally Posted By: badtlc
What? Moderator of what? I'm an electrical engineer, not a tribologist. How on Earth could I be working for the competition? My company doesn't engineer anything related to automotive, let alone lubrication.
OH wait, I get it. When facts don't back up your schtick, it is time to start name calling and making up lies about folks? Class move.
Notice I used IIRC? Aren't you an A-Rx moderator, or you were a mod for them? That's what I was referring too, when I mentioned working for the competition. Either way you make it a point to attack MMO in these threads. BTW What name/names did I call you? I did warn the OP of MMO bashers early on, but I didn't give names, no need too.
Schtick? Yea right. LOL
As someone who is MMO-Agnostic, your bias is clearly showing. Where was he "bashing" MMO? He simply stated that a 17% in fuel economy seems unreasonable from an upper cylinder lube alone (he's 100% correct), and the he didn't notice a difference? You responded with a tired strawman that "well, I guess everyone who noticed positive results is wrong"...
Tracking fuel economy is tricky business. No offense to the OP, I don't doubt he experienced an increase in the tanks when he used MMO, but it's still tough to account for the variables, particularly wind/traffic conditions and differences in acceleration. You simply need more controlled conditions (like a closed track) or a much, much bigger data set to draw any conclusions.
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trajan
MMO made my exhaust smell nice.
Use it in oil? Not any more.
Are you using it in your gas still to make the exhaust smell nice? j/k
Only the people behind me smell it.
Then, how do "you" know it smells good?? ...somebody had to say it...
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trajan
MMO made my exhaust smell nice.
Use it in oil? Not any more.
Are you using it in your gas still to make the exhaust smell nice? j/k
Only the people behind me smell it.
Then, how do "you" know it smells good?? ...somebody had to say it...
After reading this post I started using MMO @ 3oz and TC-W3 @ 1oz
per 10galons of gas. My engine is a built 1.8t engine with JE pistons and bigger clearances than stock. Since I started using this 4oz formula per every 10galons, I have noticed a smoother idle. I havent looked for any beter MPG or performance, but the car seem to like it so I will continue using it.
per 10galons of gas. My engine is a built 1.8t engine with JE pistons and bigger clearances than stock. Since I started using this 4oz formula per every 10galons, I have noticed a smoother idle. I havent looked for any beter MPG or performance, but the car seem to like it so I will continue using it.
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: badtlc
What? Moderator of what? I'm an electrical engineer, not a tribologist. How on Earth could I be working for the competition? My company doesn't engineer anything related to automotive, let alone lubrication.
OH wait, I get it. When facts don't back up your schtick, it is time to start name calling and making up lies about folks? Class move.
Notice I used IIRC? Aren't you an A-Rx moderator, or you were a mod for them? That's what I was referring too, when I mentioned working for the competition. Either way you make it a point to attack MMO in these threads. BTW What name/names did I call you? I did warn the OP of MMO bashers early on, but I didn't give names, no need too.
Schtick? Yea right. LOL
As someone who is MMO-Agnostic, your bias is clearly showing. Where was he "bashing" MMO? He simply stated that a 17% in fuel economy seems unreasonable from an upper cylinder lube alone (he's 100% correct), and the he didn't notice a difference? You responded with a tired strawman that "well, I guess everyone who noticed positive results is wrong"...
Tracking fuel economy is tricky business. No offense to the OP, I don't doubt he experienced an increase in the tanks when he used MMO, but it's still tough to account for the variables, particularly wind/traffic conditions and differences in acceleration. You simply need more controlled conditions (like a closed track) or a much, much bigger data set to draw any conclusions.
Bias I comment about products that work, MMO is one of them and very popular here, so I comment a lot. Seems a lot of people in this thread like it and had good results with it.
As far as the MMO bashing comments try the search function and check out his prior MMO posts. Or add me to your ignore list if I bother you.
I was corrected by a friend, Badtlc is not an A-Rx moderator, I thought he was, sorry about that.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: badtlc
What? Moderator of what? I'm an electrical engineer, not a tribologist. How on Earth could I be working for the competition? My company doesn't engineer anything related to automotive, let alone lubrication.
OH wait, I get it. When facts don't back up your schtick, it is time to start name calling and making up lies about folks? Class move.
Notice I used IIRC? Aren't you an A-Rx moderator, or you were a mod for them? That's what I was referring too, when I mentioned working for the competition. Either way you make it a point to attack MMO in these threads. BTW What name/names did I call you? I did warn the OP of MMO bashers early on, but I didn't give names, no need too.
Schtick? Yea right. LOL
As someone who is MMO-Agnostic, your bias is clearly showing. Where was he "bashing" MMO? He simply stated that a 17% in fuel economy seems unreasonable from an upper cylinder lube alone (he's 100% correct), and the he didn't notice a difference? You responded with a tired strawman that "well, I guess everyone who noticed positive results is wrong"...
Tracking fuel economy is tricky business. No offense to the OP, I don't doubt he experienced an increase in the tanks when he used MMO, but it's still tough to account for the variables, particularly wind/traffic conditions and differences in acceleration. You simply need more controlled conditions (like a closed track) or a much, much bigger data set to draw any conclusions.
Bias I comment about products that work, MMO is one of them and very popular here, so I comment a lot. Seems a lot of people in this thread like it and had good results with it.
As far as the MMO bashing comments try the search function and check out his prior MMO posts. Or add me to your ignore list if I bother you.
I was corrected by a friend, Badtlc is not an A-Rx moderator, I thought he was, sorry about that.
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trajan
MMO made my exhaust smell nice.
Use it in oil? Not any more.
Are you using it in your gas still to make the exhaust smell nice? j/k
Only the people behind me smell it.
Then, how do "you" know it smells good?? ...somebody had to say it...
Standing behind the car while it was running.
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trajan
MMO made my exhaust smell nice.
Use it in oil? Not any more.
Are you using it in your gas still to make the exhaust smell nice? j/k
Only the people behind me smell it.
Then, how do "you" know it smells good?? ...somebody had to say it...
Standing behind the car while it was running.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Standing behind the car while it was running.
Trajan- As long as you weren't sitting in it while it was running with the windows open, inside a closed garage, it's all good!
I do agree it does change the exhaust smell, I notice it most with my power washer and lawn mower.
Standing behind the car while it was running.
Trajan- As long as you weren't sitting in it while it was running with the windows open, inside a closed garage, it's all good!
I do agree it does change the exhaust smell, I notice it most with my power washer and lawn mower.
LOL, I spent a lot of time on the Hi-Fi forums in the last several days and there lots of threads like like this, but slightly different like: would $500 speaker cable improve sound?
Of course it does, as what we see or know influences what we hear. I has been scientifically proven.
Same here, if someone adds MMO or TCW3 or something else in gas and WANTS to see improvement in MPG, there WILL be improvement.
It happened to me to when I tested TCW3 in my Prius. The first tank with TCW3 on hwy was much higher (it turned out to be driving with wind) and the second one was below average. The first tank with TCW3 in city was above average, but now I have the same above average WITHOUT TCW3 when I watch the MPG meter closely.
The biggest variable in MPG is the DRIVER, 20% variability according to one trucking company study.
Of course it does, as what we see or know influences what we hear. I has been scientifically proven.
Same here, if someone adds MMO or TCW3 or something else in gas and WANTS to see improvement in MPG, there WILL be improvement.
It happened to me to when I tested TCW3 in my Prius. The first tank with TCW3 on hwy was much higher (it turned out to be driving with wind) and the second one was below average. The first tank with TCW3 in city was above average, but now I have the same above average WITHOUT TCW3 when I watch the MPG meter closely.
The biggest variable in MPG is the DRIVER, 20% variability according to one trucking company study.
I've tried MMO with no apparent MPG gain. Ive tried different oils and weights with no apparent gains either. Likewise with fuel additives like Chevron Honestly there are too many variables even if you try to eliminate as many as possible.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Of course it does, as what we see or know influences what we hear. I has been scientifically proven.
Same here, if someone adds MMO or TCW3 or something else in gas and WANTS to see improvement in MPG, there WILL be improvement.
EXACTLY, which is why drugs are tested using a double blind system.
The biggest variable in MPG is the DRIVER, 20% variability according to one trucking company study.
I can believe that. By the time you add in temperarure, rain, wind, tire pressure, etc., that variable goes even higher.
Of course it does, as what we see or know influences what we hear. I has been scientifically proven.
Same here, if someone adds MMO or TCW3 or something else in gas and WANTS to see improvement in MPG, there WILL be improvement.
EXACTLY, which is why drugs are tested using a double blind system.
The biggest variable in MPG is the DRIVER, 20% variability according to one trucking company study.
I can believe that. By the time you add in temperarure, rain, wind, tire pressure, etc., that variable goes even higher.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
LOL, I spent a lot of time on the Hi-Fi forums in the last several days and there lots of threads like like this, but slightly different like: would $500 speaker cable improve sound?
Of course it does, as what we see or know influences what we hear. I has been scientifically proven.
Same here, if someone adds MMO or TCW3 or something else in gas and WANTS to see improvement in MPG, there WILL be improvement.
It happened to me to when I tested TCW3 in my Prius. The first tank with TCW3 on hwy was much higher (it turned out to be driving with wind) and the second one was below average. The first tank with TCW3 in city was above average, but now I have the same above average WITHOUT TCW3 when I watch the MPG meter closely.
The biggest variable in MPG is the DRIVER, 20% variability according to one trucking company study.
Did not happen to me. I tried MMO in my E430 gas tank couple years ago, I like to see improvement in gas mileage and engine smoothness, but I didn't get better MPG and the engine ran rough until I refilled the tank at the next fill up.
LOL, I spent a lot of time on the Hi-Fi forums in the last several days and there lots of threads like like this, but slightly different like: would $500 speaker cable improve sound?
Of course it does, as what we see or know influences what we hear. I has been scientifically proven.
Same here, if someone adds MMO or TCW3 or something else in gas and WANTS to see improvement in MPG, there WILL be improvement.
It happened to me to when I tested TCW3 in my Prius. The first tank with TCW3 on hwy was much higher (it turned out to be driving with wind) and the second one was below average. The first tank with TCW3 in city was above average, but now I have the same above average WITHOUT TCW3 when I watch the MPG meter closely.
The biggest variable in MPG is the DRIVER, 20% variability according to one trucking company study.
Did not happen to me. I tried MMO in my E430 gas tank couple years ago, I like to see improvement in gas mileage and engine smoothness, but I didn't get better MPG and the engine ran rough until I refilled the tank at the next fill up.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Did not happen to me. I tried MMO in my E430 gas tank couple years ago, I like to see improvement in gas mileage and engine smoothness, but I didn't get better MPG and the engine ran rough until I refilled the tank at the next fill up.
LOL, maybe you didn't try hard enough? Does you car have instant or trip MPG gauge? If one has one and one pays attention it's easy to improve MPG, especially in hybrids that are optimized to save fuel.
One another thing I noticed, people see difference with fuel additives in older, less efficient cars. My take is fuel additives fix issues that are absent in newer cars.
Did not happen to me. I tried MMO in my E430 gas tank couple years ago, I like to see improvement in gas mileage and engine smoothness, but I didn't get better MPG and the engine ran rough until I refilled the tank at the next fill up.
LOL, maybe you didn't try hard enough? Does you car have instant or trip MPG gauge? If one has one and one pays attention it's easy to improve MPG, especially in hybrids that are optimized to save fuel.
One another thing I noticed, people see difference with fuel additives in older, less efficient cars. My take is fuel additives fix issues that are absent in newer cars.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
.....
As far as the MMO bashing comments try the search function and check out his prior MMO posts. ....
You go ahead and search and see if you can find any. I have never bashed MMO the product. Though I have bashed MMO forum moderators. I have questioned people who seem to get good results in hopes of finding significant quantification of the results that make sense. I routinely suggest people try MMO on this very board.
I do believe MMO has some benefits in oil for things like stuck lifters. I am still searching for concrete proof it can do something in fuel and what that something is. Maybe it is only for older engines. I'll know shortly because i found a 180k mile car to do fuel tests on since mine are apparently "too good" to see results.
.....
As far as the MMO bashing comments try the search function and check out his prior MMO posts. ....
You go ahead and search and see if you can find any. I have never bashed MMO the product. Though I have bashed MMO forum moderators. I have questioned people who seem to get good results in hopes of finding significant quantification of the results that make sense. I routinely suggest people try MMO on this very board.
I do believe MMO has some benefits in oil for things like stuck lifters. I am still searching for concrete proof it can do something in fuel and what that something is. Maybe it is only for older engines. I'll know shortly because i found a 180k mile car to do fuel tests on since mine are apparently "too good" to see results.
My twin brother and I are going to try an experiment. We have identical 1982 Chevrolet Cavaliers with 195,311 miles on them. Same tires, same oil, same windshield wipers, etc. We will fill up one with a mix of MMO, and one without. We will then drive cross-country, side by side, for the rest of the summer. We will eat the same exact food, drink the same exact beer, listen to the same radio stations, etc. Will report back to you all with our findings.
Originally Posted By: kasedian
My twin brother and I are going to try an experiment. We have identical 1982 Chevrolet Cavaliers with 195,311 miles on them. Same tires, same oil, same windshield wipers, etc. We will fill up one with a mix of MMO, and one without. We will then drive cross-country, side by side, for the rest of the summer. We will eat the same exact food, drink the same exact beer, listen to the same radio stations, etc. Will report back to you all with our findings.
Finally! A real honest to goodness scientific test!
My twin brother and I are going to try an experiment. We have identical 1982 Chevrolet Cavaliers with 195,311 miles on them. Same tires, same oil, same windshield wipers, etc. We will fill up one with a mix of MMO, and one without. We will then drive cross-country, side by side, for the rest of the summer. We will eat the same exact food, drink the same exact beer, listen to the same radio stations, etc. Will report back to you all with our findings.
Finally! A real honest to goodness scientific test!
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
.....
As far as the MMO bashing comments try the search function and check out his prior MMO posts. ....
You go ahead and search and see if you can find any. I have never bashed MMO the product. Though I have bashed MMO forum moderators. I have questioned people who seem to get good results in hopes of finding significant quantification of the results that make sense. I routinely suggest people try MMO on this very board.
I do believe MMO has some benefits in oil for things like stuck lifters. I am still searching for concrete proof it can do something in fuel and what that something is. Maybe it is only for older engines. I'll know shortly because i found a 180k mile car to do fuel tests on since mine are apparently "too good" to see results.
Makes no difference to me what you do, my proof it works is in these pages and my own testing. The smart money is on you won't find anything positive to say, you already have your mind made up.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
.....
As far as the MMO bashing comments try the search function and check out his prior MMO posts. ....
You go ahead and search and see if you can find any. I have never bashed MMO the product. Though I have bashed MMO forum moderators. I have questioned people who seem to get good results in hopes of finding significant quantification of the results that make sense. I routinely suggest people try MMO on this very board.
I do believe MMO has some benefits in oil for things like stuck lifters. I am still searching for concrete proof it can do something in fuel and what that something is. Maybe it is only for older engines. I'll know shortly because i found a 180k mile car to do fuel tests on since mine are apparently "too good" to see results.
Makes no difference to me what you do, my proof it works is in these pages and my own testing. The smart money is on you won't find anything positive to say, you already have your mind made up.
Originally Posted By: kasedian
My twin brother and I are going to try an experiment. We have identical 1982 Chevrolet Cavaliers with 195,311 miles on them. Same tires, same oil, same windshield wipers, etc. We will fill up one with a mix of MMO, and one without. We will then drive cross-country, side by side, for the rest of the summer. We will eat the same exact food, drink the same exact beer, listen to the same radio stations, etc. Will report back to you all with our findings.
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but that will not be much of a scientific test. I applaud your effort, but your method is lacking. You can't really compare mileage between two cars, you have to compare mileage of the same car, before and after the addition of an additive.
You'd be better off driving both cars halfway, noting the mileage of each car, then add the MMO to both cars at each fillup for the second half of the trip, carefully logging the mileage.
On the return trip, do the exact same thing, add nothing to the gas of either car for the first half of the trip, then add MMO to the fuel of both cars for the second half, again being careful to note the mileage.
Good luck and have fun
My twin brother and I are going to try an experiment. We have identical 1982 Chevrolet Cavaliers with 195,311 miles on them. Same tires, same oil, same windshield wipers, etc. We will fill up one with a mix of MMO, and one without. We will then drive cross-country, side by side, for the rest of the summer. We will eat the same exact food, drink the same exact beer, listen to the same radio stations, etc. Will report back to you all with our findings.
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but that will not be much of a scientific test. I applaud your effort, but your method is lacking. You can't really compare mileage between two cars, you have to compare mileage of the same car, before and after the addition of an additive.
You'd be better off driving both cars halfway, noting the mileage of each car, then add the MMO to both cars at each fillup for the second half of the trip, carefully logging the mileage.
On the return trip, do the exact same thing, add nothing to the gas of either car for the first half of the trip, then add MMO to the fuel of both cars for the second half, again being careful to note the mileage.
Good luck and have fun
While my Jeep clearly loves MMO, my first tank with MMO in my wife's Chevy showed no gains. I will continue to test it there but it appears as has been suggested already, not every vehicle is going to benefit from it.
I'm going to get some solid MMO results soon. My MPG has been down of late and I thought it was the CVs in particular, but unless my sensor is starting to not allow Lean Burn for some reason without throwing a CEL, I don't know why MMO would make for a 12% gain in my app.
Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: kasedian
My twin brother and I are going to try an experiment. We have identical 1982 Chevrolet Cavaliers with 195,311 miles on them. Same tires, same oil, same windshield wipers, etc. We will fill up one with a mix of MMO, and one without. We will then drive cross-country, side by side, for the rest of the summer. We will eat the same exact food, drink the same exact beer, listen to the same radio stations, etc. Will report back to you all with our findings.
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but that will not be much of a scientific test. I applaud your effort, but your method is lacking. You can't really compare mileage between two cars, you have to compare mileage of the same car, before and after the addition of an additive.
You'd be better off driving both cars halfway, noting the mileage of each car, then add the MMO to both cars at each fillup for the second half of the trip, carefully logging the mileage.
On the return trip, do the exact same thing, add nothing to the gas of either car for the first half of the trip, then add MMO to the fuel of both cars for the second half, again being careful to note the mileage.
Good luck and have fun
But, they're identical cars. Same mileage and everything. Even the same seat covers, and 1 missing hubcap. VIN #s are the same, too.
Originally Posted By: kasedian
My twin brother and I are going to try an experiment. We have identical 1982 Chevrolet Cavaliers with 195,311 miles on them. Same tires, same oil, same windshield wipers, etc. We will fill up one with a mix of MMO, and one without. We will then drive cross-country, side by side, for the rest of the summer. We will eat the same exact food, drink the same exact beer, listen to the same radio stations, etc. Will report back to you all with our findings.
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but that will not be much of a scientific test. I applaud your effort, but your method is lacking. You can't really compare mileage between two cars, you have to compare mileage of the same car, before and after the addition of an additive.
You'd be better off driving both cars halfway, noting the mileage of each car, then add the MMO to both cars at each fillup for the second half of the trip, carefully logging the mileage.
On the return trip, do the exact same thing, add nothing to the gas of either car for the first half of the trip, then add MMO to the fuel of both cars for the second half, again being careful to note the mileage.
Good luck and have fun
But, they're identical cars. Same mileage and everything. Even the same seat covers, and 1 missing hubcap. VIN #s are the same, too.
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