9,000-mile results are in!

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Well I say that a oil chemistry that calls itself SAE 30 should stay in that range or call it something else.

Note that no company posts its cSt or SUS vis range except VP racing fuels syn racing oils.

Thats a personal peeve I have. M1 0w-40 is really a SAE 30 so the shoe fits for both formulators. In opposite directions, another chemistry and formulating philosphical difference.

yes % increase is a good measure of what is happening to the chemistry and why.


My ancient SAE vis table says the SUS 30w grade at 210F is 58-70 SUS.

Remember my earlier comments that the vis increase is a symptom not a problem. At least not yet.
 
quote:

Calcium Borates are gaining polularity as part of the Boron family of additives.

These should show up as low potassium, high-calcium/high-boron ppms in UOA's.

They are used primarily as detergents in fully formulated oils, but are found to be
anti-oxidation, anti-corrosion, and anti-wear agents.

In addition, they provide a very stable and robust TBN.

Mobil 1 uses quite a bit of Boron and I'd say that helps M1 retain it's TBN so well.
 
Why is the discussion here whether or not the Amsoil will make it another 2k miles? Amsoil doesn't advertise this oil as a 13k mile oil; they claim it's a 25k mile oil. Relative to Amsoil's lofty claims, this oil is done.

3MP: Thanks for doing this.

MR
 
The oil can meet Amsoil's claims. 3+ more months and it will be 12 months....with or without the filter change. But 12K was the filter change and 1.5 quart top up on the M1. I thought this was a fair test -the fact that mileage is accumulating differently is bad enough.

And again to the point and as I mentioned before. If someone says the oil is done then they should explain why they think so.

Even Terry said the TBN was OK, and explained by saying in his judgment an oil should stay in grade. Fair enough. But as I posted the range of viscosity is tighter with Amsoil. And an oil is "allowed" one grade change in use.

Sure I'm biased, but so are others.....mine is just shown every time I post.
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quote:

the fact that mileage is accumulating differently is bad enough.

I don't think RATE of mileage accumulation has much affect.

You also have to realize this engine is more broken-in and should shear the oil "less" than it did with Mobil 1.

Thanks 3MP.
 
I, too, doubt rate has much to do with metal wear IF the miles are equivalant in terms of city/highway. I think TBN can be effected by rate though.

I doubt there has been enough wear to effect shear clearances....you think?
 
Oil is still good. TBN could be as high as 5 on another test. If the oil thickens dramtically, then I'd pull it.

I think Redline should be next and then Mobil 1 again. Even if 3MP could run M1 6-9k miles in a year, we could still compare those intervals to the older M1 intervals to compare to see how much break-in effected the Mobil 1 test.
 
I've used Mobil 1 and Amsoil and must say they are about equal (5w-30). If that is the case penny for penny Mobil is a better bargain, and they DO have a different makeup and formulated with a different end result of chemistry.

I don't believe Amsoil can go 25,000 miles in every condition if any synthetic given an all ideal situation. I DON"T like Amsoil LABEL!!! It tarnish itself as the quality of what Amsoil is a very good synthetic oil as Mobil has grown to be...and watch out they got the position to have a very dominant position in the synthetic market.

Amsoil has other synthetic oil which will cost a bit comparable to other synthetic oil on the market and Amsoil will be Amsoil a backyard marketing as they did once have the upperhand in the synthetic oil market and quality to back it up.

TIMES CHANGES...As more car owners realize the benifit of synthetic oil marketing and quality of synthetic is a serious business as it get's tougher with competition...

Amsoil will be Amsoil and I don't don't they will fall out of the synthetic market but capture what they stand for a different type of marketing and quality of synthetic oil. They have a unique presence in the synthetic oil and fill the gaps in synthetic marketing....
 
Just for the record:

I'v used both M & A in my 1998 H22A4 Honda engine.

Interestingly, what I expected to see and what I actually saw were two different things.

A oil's tend to thicken in the H22A4 over 10,000 miles and go out of grade.

M oil's tend to stay in grade and thicken less.

Of course, there are many factor in play here. One of them being the A oils start on the thicker end of the grade to begin with. M oils tend to be on the thinner side of the grade most of the time.
 
3 MP's did the Dexsil kit on this sample so it will be interesting to see what actually happens. This has been the most informative test I've seen to date.
 
Bill Morris, sorry but I'm having a tough time deciphering your broken grammar. It seems you say one thing, then turn a 180 and say the opposite?

Nothing concrete will come of this at this time. Good start for one to see how each oil reacts over time under different conditions, but in the same engine.
Making a conclusion now is wrong.
Personaly having reviewed this forum over the last two months, it seems people are responding to UOA like they have something invested with the report. I can show you numbers all day, every day and in a light from which I choose. My interpretation versus yours. We chose or own oils for different reasons and want everyone else to view our UOA as an answer to the "BIG QUESTION", Look I'm using oil X and my report is perfect, NO wear, must mean my choice in oils is correct, anyone with a different idea must be wrong. Sorry, this just seems to childish, can't we just view everyone's UOA, along with there experiences as chapters of information and add this knowledge to our book of life. I'm still going to decide for myself which oil to use, which posts to believe and hope I'm making the right choices, such is life. I guess what I'm trying to say is enjoy the forum and don't take anything said to heart. Tomorrow the sun will rise regardless!
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Well said Steel Blue...We have flaws and sometimes we must be reminded as no one is perfect...as in all Oils or in everyday living...I have learned much and SHOULD appreciate this site as everyone has....
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I think one of the more interesting aspects of the next interval will be if they did submit to two different labs. It should also cause enough data for lively discussion until the 11K interval as well
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I have been watching this test curiously on the spacebars site and am glad to see it is being watched and debated here.

The fact that the TBN testing procedure has changed during this test is highly suspect in my opinion. The next sample really should be sent to three differnt labs, Balckstone, OAI, and Dyson to see how they compare. I'll even pay for the OAI kit just to see how the same sample compares between these two labs. My theory is that the the wear metals should be about the the same but the TBN from OAI will be higher than this alarmingly low 1.9.

3 Mad Ponchos, no one wants to see you ruin your engine but thousands of people are looking at this test and want to see truly comparitive results. Plus, if you drain the oil based on a questionably, possibly inacurately calculated, low TBN the whole effort will be wasted time. Terry Dyson is one of the true gurus in the art and science of automotive oil analysis and if he says that he is not concerned about the reserve alkalinity of the oil, keep testing until the wear, oxidation, nitration and/or other numbers numbers begin to "rise exponentialy". With your 1000 mile sample intervals, the engine is not going to go south within 1000 miles and when the oil is truly through, the wear numbers will show it. It is my opinion that you should at least leave the oil in there long enough to see if the wear numbers get to where the M1 wear levels were. These were all acknowledged to be very safe and you certainly will be not doing any harm to your engine at that point.

Send me a PM if you'd like me to send you a comp OAI kit for the next sample.

Don
 
Given the minimal increase in viscosity and the fairly low total solids level, I'd say this oil still has quite a bit of life left in it. In my ten years of experience of testing Amsoil, it is rare for the TBN to bottom out before the oil thickens by 15% to 20% due to oxidation and nitration ....

As Don mentioned, since you are testing every 1000 miles, the oil properties are going change very slowly and the chances of engine damage are exceedlingly small ....

Tooslick
 
quote:

Originally posted by Don Stevens:
The fact that the TBN testing procedure has changed during this test ...

It didn't. Blackstone changed their TBN testing method during the Mobil 1 test.
 
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