Red Line 5W-50 2011 GT500 Shelby - high oxidation

Unleashedbeast · Jul 20, 2011

I just received this report from a fellow GT500 owner who was using Red Line 5W-50 for 2,118 miles. The car has just over 10,000 total miles. Wear numbers look to be acceptable, but look at how low TBN is, and how high oxidation is.

Did the base stock oxidization increase viscosity and make it appear that it didn't shear much as expected from it's virgin 20.9 cSt spec (VOA tested)?

I would assume the test wasn't inaccurate for oxidation since TBN is so low.

Thoughts and input required. Thanks.

dparm · Jul 20, 2011

Oxidation can be caused by high heat. Is this car getting track time? (sustained WOT periods)

d00df00d · Jul 20, 2011

Can't high-ester formulations inherently produce high oxidation numbers?

2oldtommy · Jul 20, 2011

I would expect the oxidation # is a result of high oil temperatures. Could it be that that this is the result of many runs feeling the pleasure of that 630 RWHP? Enjoy! FWIW--Oldtommy

edhackett · Jul 20, 2011

The esters in the base stock contain oxygen, which gives a false positive for oxidation. You need a sample of virgin oil to serve as a baseline. The low TBN is puzzling.

Ed

A_Harman · Jul 20, 2011

I would say go back and try again with Redline 10w-40. Fewer VII's may reduce oxidation. This would be a good UOA to show to Redline and get their comments.

Jim 5 · Jul 20, 2011

Originally Posted By: 2oldtommy
I would expect the oxidation # is a result of high oil temperatures. Could it be that that this is the result of many runs feeling the pleasure of that 630 RWHP? Enjoy! FWIW--Oldtommy

I certainly hope so. What a waste it would be otherwise!

Unleashedbeast · Jul 20, 2011

This was not taken from my 630 rwhp Shelby, it was a stock 2011 GT500 ~500 rwhp. He drives it daily, and has never been at the track. He does drive it aggressively on the street though.

Unleashedbeast · Jul 20, 2011

Here is a UOA from my Shelby using Amsoil.

1st run was 20W-50
2nd and 3rd run was the same fill of 10W-40

3rd run mile of interval was 4,124 miles (miles listed is incorrect).

Steve S · Jul 20, 2011

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Can't high-ester formulations inherently produce high oxidation numbers?
+1

dparm · Jul 20, 2011

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Can't high-ester formulations inherently produce high oxidation numbers?
+1

Yes, but I still wouldn't rule out heat. Redline's oil should have anti-oxidation additives to fight an ester's tendency to cause oxidation.

I've been running ester-rich Motul 300V for over a year and I have yet to see anything about oxidation in my reports. And yes, my car sees track time.

d00df00d · Jul 20, 2011

Originally Posted By: dparm
Yes, but I still wouldn't rule out heat. Redline's oil should have anti-oxidation additives to fight an ester's tendency to cause oxidation.

It's not that they cause higher oxidation per se. It's that they cause high oxidation numbers on UOAs.

Originally Posted By: dparm
I've been running ester-rich Motul 300V for over a year and I have yet to see anything about oxidation in my reports. And yes, my car sees track time.

Do your UOAs even include oxidation tests? I just took a quick glance at two of them and didn't see that.

buster · Jul 20, 2011

Hard to know what to make of this single run.

bluesubie · Jul 20, 2011

Tell him to go back to OAI with the lubricant name and ask them if the esters in RL could affect the oxidation numbers. I've been flagged for high oxidation, and they said it could have been from the different oils I was using.

-Dennis

chubbs1 · Jul 20, 2011

I still go back to the TBN and it just puzzles me why it was so low. I would not use such an expensive oil during break-in.

SIXSPEED · Jul 20, 2011

Here's a link to my Red Line 5W50 UOA report; the only thing that didn't look right is the Lead.

I wouldn't be too concerned with the oxidation number, a VOA with the same test would be handy to have for comparison. RL starts out with 10+ TBN, surprised to see such a low number after 2100 miles.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2254054#Post2254054

SIXSPEED · Jul 20, 2011

Here's a link to a UOA report on RL 10W40 from a 94 Corvette that showed high oxidation. The Red Line rep suggests the high readings are normal for Ester based oils.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2134493#Post2134493

dparm · Jul 21, 2011

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: dparm
Yes, but I still wouldn't rule out heat. Redline's oil should have anti-oxidation additives to fight an ester's tendency to cause oxidation.

It's not that they cause higher oxidation per se. It's that they cause high oxidation numbers on UOAs.

Originally Posted By: dparm
I've been running ester-rich Motul 300V for over a year and I have yet to see anything about oxidation in my reports. And yes, my car sees track time.

Do your UOAs even include oxidation tests? I just took a quick glance at two of them and didn't see that.

Good point, I just realized they don't....

Unleashedbeast · Jul 21, 2011

I suspected the nature of an ester base stock was high oxidation readings, more due to inaccuracies in the test, not actual.

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
I still go back to the TBN and it just puzzles me why it was so low. I would not use such an expensive oil during break-in.

Had the TBN been closer to 5-7 for only a 2100 mile run, I would feel more at ease about my prior thoughts. I don't know that I'd consider this a break in oil when the car has 10,000 miles on it.

The wear metals rival the best we have seen in the GT500 engines, so that's not an issue at all. I was only concerned with Oxidation and TBN.

The owner of this car has two 2011 GT500, one red and the other Kona blue. He drives the blue car, the wife drives the red one. This sample is from her car. Her new fill of oil is Amsoil 10W-40, and she already has experienced an efficiency increase. I guess the idea of Red Line 5W-50 wasn't the best idea since it doesn't shears rapidly like Motorcraft 5W-50. It retains a viscosity that I have proven to be to much for a Ford modular driven on the street.

SIXSPEED · Jul 21, 2011

Originally Posted By: Unleashedbeast
I guess the idea of Red Line 5W-50 wasn't the best idea since it doesn't shears rapidly like Motorcraft 5W-50. It retains a viscosity that I have proven to be to much for a Ford modular driven on the street.

Their 5W50 HTHS viscosity of 5.9 cSt is higher than necessary for our cars too IMO.

Red Line 5W-50 2011 GT500 Shelby - high oxidation

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