d'oh, I see it now it Drew's post.
Using anti-seize???? Torque 20% less!!!
Using anti-seize???? Torque 20% less!!!
aluminum grease and anti-seize
- Thread starter mjoekingz28
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Originally Posted By: Drew2000
Originally Posted By: tom slick
I've never lost one bolt off of any of my vehicles or machines and I anti-seize everything. I still have all the lug nuts, all fully functioning spark plugs, non-leaking manifolds, electric motors, idler pulleys, turbines, brake parts, mufflers, etc that I have worked on.
+1..Working on commercial/industrial equipment, far more problems from corroded/jammed/snapped dry fasteners than properly anti-seized ones.
Just make sure to use the proper product for the material composition. IE: Steel fasteners in aluminum should use zinc anti seize, not copper. Nickel for high heat, copper for general steel to steel. Also, reduce the torque applied about 20% when assembling anti-seized fasteners vs dry thread value.
Drew
would spark plugs in a 2az-fe be steel on aluminum or steel on steel?
Originally Posted By: tom slick
I've never lost one bolt off of any of my vehicles or machines and I anti-seize everything. I still have all the lug nuts, all fully functioning spark plugs, non-leaking manifolds, electric motors, idler pulleys, turbines, brake parts, mufflers, etc that I have worked on.
+1..Working on commercial/industrial equipment, far more problems from corroded/jammed/snapped dry fasteners than properly anti-seized ones.
Just make sure to use the proper product for the material composition. IE: Steel fasteners in aluminum should use zinc anti seize, not copper. Nickel for high heat, copper for general steel to steel. Also, reduce the torque applied about 20% when assembling anti-seized fasteners vs dry thread value.
Drew
would spark plugs in a 2az-fe be steel on aluminum or steel on steel?
Kestas
Staff member
Originally Posted By: crinkles
2az-fe
??
2az-fe
??
Originally Posted By: crinkles
would spark plugs in a 2az-fe be steel on aluminum or steel on steel?
Steel (plug) in Aluminum (cylinder heads).
would spark plugs in a 2az-fe be steel on aluminum or steel on steel?
Steel (plug) in Aluminum (cylinder heads).
Originally Posted By: MonumentOiler
Originally Posted By: crinkles
would spark plugs in a 2az-fe be steel on aluminum or steel on steel?
Steel (plug) in Aluminum (cylinder heads).
2decades+ of working on import alu alloy heads, I have yet to cause any spark plugs crossthreading/seizing even without anti-seize.
The truth is, you just have to torque those spark plugs to factory specs (typically between 16~26ft/lbs for those that came with gaskets, strictly factory torque specs for those w/o gaskets).
I torque my wifey's 2AZFE spark plugs to 21ft/lbs.
BTW: I also form a habit of pulling spark plugs off for inspections every year or 2 (max tolerable intervals would be 2 yrs) and then wire-brush the spark plug threads with wire brush.
Q.
Originally Posted By: crinkles
would spark plugs in a 2az-fe be steel on aluminum or steel on steel?
Steel (plug) in Aluminum (cylinder heads).
2decades+ of working on import alu alloy heads, I have yet to cause any spark plugs crossthreading/seizing even without anti-seize.
The truth is, you just have to torque those spark plugs to factory specs (typically between 16~26ft/lbs for those that came with gaskets, strictly factory torque specs for those w/o gaskets).
I torque my wifey's 2AZFE spark plugs to 21ft/lbs.
BTW: I also form a habit of pulling spark plugs off for inspections every year or 2 (max tolerable intervals would be 2 yrs) and then wire-brush the spark plug threads with wire brush.
Q.
RE: Torque Adjustments
Here you go guys, hope this helps:
Listed are common Loctite brand anti-seize such as C5A (Copper) Moly-50, Graphite-50. You can find the equivalent adjustment for your application
Here you go guys, hope this helps:
Listed are common Loctite brand anti-seize such as C5A (Copper) Moly-50, Graphite-50. You can find the equivalent adjustment for your application
Some comments on anti-seize:
-ALWAYS use anti-seize. Dry torquing gives you inaccurate erratic torque values for example a series of bolts. Add corrosion to the threads, and your guessing. Nothing will come loose with anti-seize, that's nonsense. I don't think there's any proof of concrete data that shows anti-seize causes vibration loosening. In fact using anti-seize will give you a more accurate clamping. Use serrated flange nuts if your concerned.
I've replaced 500 bolts in my car all with anti-seize and none have come loose. I also apply to my wheel nuts and ESPECIALLY the axle nut.
-ALWAYS adjust the torque value. I've stripped a few M14 bolts because I didn't adjust the torque enough. I used the simple 20% reduction rule which isn't enough for the aluminum, graphite, and moly anti-seize I use. I also RUINED the weld anchor in the chassis for a transmission mount because the torque became so extreme even with the 20% reduction of the HIGH value stated in the service manual (you will notice they give a low & high for torque spec). I use the mid point then apply the calculation above. It feels much more correct with the torque wrench. Beleive when you start torquing things down with anti-seize you can feel when your getting to that danger zone like you KNOW it's over-torquing. It will feel like the anchor will rip right out of the metal. Applying the formula above has fixed that feeling when I used it. I only found this recently.
-SPEND the money on a high end anti-seize that can cover all applications and it's not costly in the end because it lasts so long one container - it'll last years. I recommend Jet-Lube 550 (top of the line stuff), or Jet-Lube NIKAL.
By the way to OP, the 550 product is the aluminum complex base grease that you speak of, and so is the NIKAL.
-ALWAYS use anti-seize. Dry torquing gives you inaccurate erratic torque values for example a series of bolts. Add corrosion to the threads, and your guessing. Nothing will come loose with anti-seize, that's nonsense. I don't think there's any proof of concrete data that shows anti-seize causes vibration loosening. In fact using anti-seize will give you a more accurate clamping. Use serrated flange nuts if your concerned.
I've replaced 500 bolts in my car all with anti-seize and none have come loose. I also apply to my wheel nuts and ESPECIALLY the axle nut.
-ALWAYS adjust the torque value. I've stripped a few M14 bolts because I didn't adjust the torque enough. I used the simple 20% reduction rule which isn't enough for the aluminum, graphite, and moly anti-seize I use. I also RUINED the weld anchor in the chassis for a transmission mount because the torque became so extreme even with the 20% reduction of the HIGH value stated in the service manual (you will notice they give a low & high for torque spec). I use the mid point then apply the calculation above. It feels much more correct with the torque wrench. Beleive when you start torquing things down with anti-seize you can feel when your getting to that danger zone like you KNOW it's over-torquing. It will feel like the anchor will rip right out of the metal. Applying the formula above has fixed that feeling when I used it. I only found this recently.
-SPEND the money on a high end anti-seize that can cover all applications and it's not costly in the end because it lasts so long one container - it'll last years. I recommend Jet-Lube 550 (top of the line stuff), or Jet-Lube NIKAL.
By the way to OP, the 550 product is the aluminum complex base grease that you speak of, and so is the NIKAL.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: gtx510
What do you guys think about SS anti-seize for turbos and manifolds?
http://www.neverseezproducts.com/hightemp.htm
Lead base anti seize is rated from -350*F to+3000*F
What do you guys think about SS anti-seize for turbos and manifolds?
http://www.neverseezproducts.com/hightemp.htm
Lead base anti seize is rated from -350*F to+3000*F
I anti seeze anything that has to come apart eventually that doesn't require a specific lube, sealant or a locktite type product.
I just reread this thread after ordering Permatex copper. I bought it to replace the permatex 1oz silver that is almost gone after 3 years.
Alot of confusion in this thread as to what type anti seize to use. Can it get dangerous or just less than ideal to, lets say for example, use copper on steel plugs in a steel head. I think I got that scenario right. Are all kinds of anti-seize always better than nothing? I figured I'd just use this copper on pretty much anything that has metal to metal contact like I have with the silver tube.
Thinking too much into this perhaps!?
Alot of confusion in this thread as to what type anti seize to use. Can it get dangerous or just less than ideal to, lets say for example, use copper on steel plugs in a steel head. I think I got that scenario right. Are all kinds of anti-seize always better than nothing? I figured I'd just use this copper on pretty much anything that has metal to metal contact like I have with the silver tube.
Thinking too much into this perhaps!?
Permatex® Anti-Seize Lubricant
A highly refined blend of aluminum, copper and graphite lubricants. Use during assembly to prevent galling, corrosion and seizing and to assure easier disassembly. Temperature range: -60°F to 1600°F (-51°Cto 871°C). Salt, corrosion and moisture resistant – ideal for marine use. Non-aerosol version meets Mil Spec #907E. Aerosol - Level 3*
Looks like the "silver" permatex anti-seize is a blend of copper, aluminum, and graphite!?! If you look then on the copper specific anti-seize page, permatex recommends it for spark plugs in aluminum heads?? Does this mean I have been using the wrong "silver" stuff in my aluminum heads???
Here is the Copper description:
Permatex® Copper Anti-Seize Lubricant
A premium quality copper anti-seize and thread lubricant that may be used to prevent seizing, corrosion and galling where high temperature conditions exist. Contains a high percentage of micro-fine copper flakes in a semi-synthetic grease carrier and is fortified with high quality rust and corrosion inhibitors. Temperature range: -30°F to 1800°F (-34°C to 982°C). Provides good electrical conductivity. Meets Mil Spec #907E.
Suggested Applications: Spark plug threads installed in aluminum, exhaust manifold bolts, engine bolts, oxygen sensors, knock sensors, thermostat housing bolts, fuel filter fittings, and battery cable connections
A highly refined blend of aluminum, copper and graphite lubricants. Use during assembly to prevent galling, corrosion and seizing and to assure easier disassembly. Temperature range: -60°F to 1600°F (-51°Cto 871°C). Salt, corrosion and moisture resistant – ideal for marine use. Non-aerosol version meets Mil Spec #907E. Aerosol - Level 3*
Looks like the "silver" permatex anti-seize is a blend of copper, aluminum, and graphite!?! If you look then on the copper specific anti-seize page, permatex recommends it for spark plugs in aluminum heads?? Does this mean I have been using the wrong "silver" stuff in my aluminum heads???
Here is the Copper description:
Permatex® Copper Anti-Seize Lubricant
A premium quality copper anti-seize and thread lubricant that may be used to prevent seizing, corrosion and galling where high temperature conditions exist. Contains a high percentage of micro-fine copper flakes in a semi-synthetic grease carrier and is fortified with high quality rust and corrosion inhibitors. Temperature range: -30°F to 1800°F (-34°C to 982°C). Provides good electrical conductivity. Meets Mil Spec #907E.
Suggested Applications: Spark plug threads installed in aluminum, exhaust manifold bolts, engine bolts, oxygen sensors, knock sensors, thermostat housing bolts, fuel filter fittings, and battery cable connections
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