Camry hybrid, 0w-20 synthetic or 5w-20 dino

[Stewart Fan]

I took my wifes '11 Camry Hybrid to the dealer for its first oil change today. They're offering 25,000 miles of free service so I figured I'd take advantage of it.

The manual recommends 0w-20 but 5w-20 is also acceptable. I'm assuming that since the 0w-20 is recommended it came from the factory with Toyota's synthetic 0w-20 as factory fill.

When I looked at the paperwork they used conventional 5w-20.

My wifes attraction to the hybrid was the mileage. Is the mileage going to take a hit with the 5w-20?

 

[friendly_jacek]

Unless you use it in very cold temps, there should not be loss of MPG. However, you were cheated. Instead of free 10,000 miles OCI oil change they gave you free 5,000 miles OCI oil change.

 

[The Critic]

Toyota pays for 0w-20 under the maintenance plan if the car calls for 0w-20 ONLY. If your car fits into this category, then oil changes are every 10,000 miles per the manual.

The Camry Hybrid can use either 0w-20 or 5w-20. Since you are given the option, according to the manual, oil changes are every 5,000 miles. Since you're going the shorter interval, Toyota will only pay for 5w-20.

So the dealer did use the correct oil.

 

[bepperb]

Whatever mileage hit you get, will be less than the cost of the oil change. SN has different efficiency targets for each, but they're pretty close. I'll see if I can find my link tomorrow.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Unless you use it in very cold temps, there should not be loss of MPG. However, you were cheated. Instead of free 10,000 miles OCI oil change they gave you free 5,000 miles OCI oil change.

The Toyota 0W-20 is the lightest oil you can buy which was originally targeted at hybrids before Toyota broadened the application. Even at room temperature it is about 30% lighter than a typical 5W-20 dino and a whopping 50% lighter at 0C. The 800 ppm of moly increases fuel economy by 2% and the lower viscosity about 3% over a 5W-20 dino for a total of 5% on average.

So I agree you were cheated.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

So I agree you were cheated.

Wrong. How was he cheated? His car does not require 0w-20, it is merely an option. Toyota is probably not going to pay for something that is an option.

 

[HTSS_TR]

CATERHAM, I think you're a little optimistic about 5% fuel economy improvement from Toyota 5W20 to 0W20. I agree with you about MPG improvement with Toyota 0W20 with high moly and high VI, but my guess is somewhere around 1-2% from conventional 5W20. The 5-6% better MPG may be achieved if going down from a heavy xW40.

 

[CATERHAM]

The 5% fuel economy gain prediction is not my number but from Toyota Canada. I broke it down based on what Adeka Sakura (the Japanese maker of the moly additive) claims for the moly additive alone.

Your reference to the fuel economy gain dropping from a 40wt to a 5W-20 is an interesting one. For example, a 5W-20 dino is about 40% lighter than Rotella T6 5W-40 at 0C. As I mentioned the Toyota 0W-20 with it's 214 VI is 50% lighter than a 5W-20 dino at the same temp'. The difference is obviously not as much as higher temp's but the Toyota 0W-20 is one very light oil. I've used it I know.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

So I agree you were cheated.

Wrong. How was he cheated? His car does not require 0w-20, it is merely an option. Toyota is probably not going to pay for something that is an option.

I think you've got it backwards.
The Toyota 0W-20 is the recommended and preferred lubricant; the 5W-20 is the option.
The following is the Toyota oil application guide:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2144765&page=1

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

So I agree you were cheated.

Wrong. How was he cheated? His car does not require 0w-20, it is merely an option. Toyota is probably not going to pay for something that is an option.

I think you've got it backwards.
The Toyota 0W-20 is the recommended and preferred lubricant; the 5W-20 is the option.
The following is the Toyota oil application guide:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2144765&page=1

Per your chart, the 2011 Camry Hybrid specs 5W20 or 0W20. According to the Toyota maintenance guide, the service schedule has 5,000 mile intervals which means it's a non-synthetic car. If the car requires 0w-20, the service schedule will indicate the 10,000 mile intervals.

 

[bepperb]

5W-XX oils in the draft specification (of SN), assigning different (higher) FEI limits for 0W-XX oils.
Specifically, 0W-30 oils are expected to provide 0.3% higher FEI than 5W-30 oils, and 0W-20 oils
are expected to provide 0.5% higher FEI than 5W-20 oils. The relationship between 5W-20, 5W-
30, and 10W-30 oils will remain the same in GF-5 as in GF-4, that is, 5W-30 oils are expected to
provide 0.7% higher FEI than 10W-30 oils and 5W-20 oils are expected to provide 0.5% higher
FEI than 5W-30 oils.

From: http://www.rtvanderbilt.com/ILSAC GF-5 Development.pdf

 

[bepperb]

So, using those numbers (real, industry standard numbers, .5% difference in fuel economy, not 5%) 5000 mile oci, 30 vs 30.15mpg, 4 dollar gas, it's a difference of $3.31. Not even worth the round trip to the dealer.

 

[CATERHAM]

Your talking in generalities which is largely meaningless when applied to a specific lubricant.

 

[bepperb]

It's not a generality, it's a specific minimum that the oil needs to meet as agreed upon by US and Japanese automakers (Toyota inclusive) and the API.

It's possible to beat these numbers I'm sure, and many probably do, but there is not hard, independent tests I have seen that indicate what difference there might be. On the other hand, the numbers above are specific, scientific, and agreed upon by both a revolving panel of automakers and the relevant petroleum producers.

5% would be such a huge difference it would be noticeable and it wouldn't take long for everyone to be running this additive. To assume that large a difference between a specific lubricant and the agreed upon industry standard is irresponsible without any scientific study to prove it.

 

[CATERHAM]

As I mentioned the moly additive supplier for the EOM made Toyota 0W-20 claims an average increase of almost 2% in fuel economy. See below:

http://www.adk.co.jp/en/chemical/pickup/lib/pickup01.html

In addition to that, the Toyota oil has a VI of 214 vs maybe 150 if your lucky for a typical 5W-20 dino. That difference alone would be equivalent to as much as two oil grades if the application involves a lot of short commutes and cool weather operation.

 

[bepperb]

That's interesting. I could much more easily believe a 1.7% increase.

With my math that's about a 11.14 dollar difference over 5000 miles. Not really alot, but probably covers the difference between the Toyota 0-20 and any other synthetic, especially considering 5000 miles is a bit shorter than most go.

Maybe next OCI I'll have to give it a try. Well, next next, I have G-oil to try. That's a 5-30 that isn't "energy conserving" so it shouldn't be hard to beat.