Honda HRX owners

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Originally Posted By: 660mag
If the carb is indeed very clean, and your looking for reasons for power loss, the place to start is a cylinder leakdown test. A good ope shop would be willing to do this test for you on the spot. If the valves are sealing, and more than 25% of the air is being lost past the rings, then this could be the reason for your loss in power. We would charge you 13 bucks to do that test. Techs gota eat.


The carb looks like it just came out of the box, and always has. The catch here is that I'm not sure I'd describe it as a "loss in power" so much as "power that never was". Because I observed improvements in the lawn during the same time it started having trouble, I think that it's equally likely that the grass is more dense than the very first summer I had the mower as opposed to the mower truly "losing power".

It never has any real trouble starting, however when it's cool (let's say 70F or less) you cannot start on choke and drop right to idle. You have to leave it choked or at least running fast for 10 seconds or so. If you leave it at fast it will surge and oscillate a few times, lessening every cycle, until it runs smooth and then it will slow idle. This also makes me wonder if the carb is too lean.

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Are you using a twin-blade system on the mower? I'm sure that could either help or hurt mulching, but I'm not sure which one would be best. If you have two blades on it now, try taking the kit off and using just one. My HR215 has the kit on and I leave it on all year. I should probably take it off, because I primarily bag with that mower.


Yes, it's the factory twin blade set up since we're required by bylaw to mulch (or discharge, I suppose, but that looks like [censored]). I mulch all the time except for a certain area of the backyard that the kids and dog frequent and would drag mulch-bits into the house.

I never thought of dropping to one blade except in the case of trying a high lift blade. I wouldn't think that fewer cutting edges would help... (?)

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Also, a sharp blade is an obvious suggestion, but I figured I'd make it anyway.


Been there, done that, many times. I sharpen myself now a couple of times per season. I also have a new Honda blade set waiting in the wings.

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When my GXV-140 loads down, you can really hear it in the exhaust. I know exactly what you're talking about there, and it does seem that your engine is missing that. Have you measured the engine's running speed and/or governor action?


Measured speed? No. But I'm fairly familiar with what 3300-3600 rpm sounds like by ear. The governor action seems fine. I've followed the factory manual to reset all the linkages and can confirm when it's not running, at least, that the governor opens the throttle 100%. I can't remember if I've rigged up a test scenario to manually goose the governor arm while actually cutting - I think so but it was years ago. The carb/air box setup wouldn't really allow me to disassemble anything enough to look at the throttle plate while running without causing so much air ingestion that it would run away.

I flirted briefly with increased engine speed, but that doesn't help anything once you get to the point where the governor is at WOT and it can't hold speed. I put it back to original speed.

I can hear increased exhaust pressure, but not like my other OPE engines when they open up. Of course the -140 is the smallest displacement of the bunch but it just sounds like it isn't trying as hard as the others. I kind of always figured that Honda made it a mulcher as an afterthought so it wasn't all that great at it.

Originally Posted By: JTK
Craig, just out of curiosity, how old is your Honda mower? I know I've pretty much neglected mine over the years. I've vacuumed off and reinstalled the ORIGINAL factory air cleaner element a few times (it always looks good), pulled, checked and re-installed the factory spark plug and I've maybe changed the oil 3-4x. I bought this mower new in the spring of 1999. I believe it was the first year of the GC series engines.


It's a 2003 model HR215KHXC w/ GXV140 engine and hydrostatic drive. It's been well maintained since new by me, with regular oil changes (synthetic until recently no less) and other fiddle-faddle (plugs, filters, sharpening, adjustments, storage regimen etc...).

I suppose one thing I haven't checked is whether fuel flow from the tank is somehow restricted. When I pull the bowl drain or the fuel supply line plenty of fuel (more than could be burned at WOT) seems to come out so I stopped thinking about it).

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My grass has always been mostly closely-cropped weeds and I've never even had the blade off this mower! I'll probably never get it off now. I do scrape the underside after almost every use, but the steel is getting flakey underneath.


My blade is usually off a couple of times per year for sharpening and I blast whatever grass buildup is under there, but not a whole lot seems to stick to the alloy deck.

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I did snag the cable that actuates the single-speed self propel axle on a branch and tore it right out of the gear box, so it hasn't been 'self propelled' in years. I also had a front wheel fall off due to a cracked aluminum casting for the height-adjuster. Mail ordered a new one from Plano Power cheap and fast.


There's been a few mishaps with mine, but they've been repaired. I got new adjusters from Plano this winter too, and I replaced the wheel bearings with real bearings from a bearing shop instead of the junk that Honda supplied.

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I do run it out of gas in the fall, but it is becoming hard to start when cold. After about 10 pulls on full choke, I have to move the throttle lever all the way to idle, then feather it in to get it running. Once warm it runs like a top w/out skipping a beat. Probably a new plug would fix that.


When I went through a "hard to start" period a few years ago it turned out to be the choke adjustment. A stop screw needed to be moved so that the choke would fully close when the speed control was maxed. This changed everything. My dad's ~25-30 year old HR214 started easier until I fixed that adjustment.

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As far as power and mulching ability go, this mower has always been awesome for my conditions. I love it to pulverize leaves in the fall. What a great job it does, plus it blasts the deck clean.

When it's time to buy another- which it may be real quick, I think I'll go with an aluminum deck Toro.

Joel


Yeah, I eyed the Toro SuperRecycler with Kawasaki power a few years ago. One "problem" is that this Honda Masters will probably be in my will. I guess if I could boost the WOT power of this Honda I'd be completely satisfied... Sometimes I wish it would cut a little more evenly (someone else posted today about a LawnBoy vs. another brand and how the cut looked better from the LB...)

Originally Posted By: 660mag
Hey, I'd be willing to bet your throttle cable is not moving the control linkage all the way into choke. Happens to all of them. loosen the screw holding the cable, and pull it towards the rear of the mower 1/16 of an inch, and re tighten. May help your cold starts.


I experienced this as I mentioned above. I didn't yank on the cable, I reset all of the screw adjustments at the governor according to the manual. Same end result.
 
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You are required BY LAW to mulch your grass? It's illegal for you to bag grass? Holy cow.

I'm wondering if a single high-lift mulch blade would be easier on the engine than a twin-blade system.
 
Craig, sounds like you and I have nearly the same mower. Mine's a Masters, a 2001 HR215K1SXA. They had a non-SP version of these things, but I can't imagine using it. They're truly beasts!
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
You are required BY LAW to mulch your grass? It's illegal for you to bag grass? Holy cow.


Yep, we have to grass-cycle or landfill/yard waste (and all the trucks) would be inundated with grass clippings.

I still bag 1/2 of the backyard for cleanliness reasons. They haven't been tearing open the bags or refusing pickup, but it is in our municipal bylaws. I don't think it's all that uncommon as a landfill diversion tactic either.

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I'm wondering if a single high-lift mulch blade would be easier on the engine than a twin-blade system.


Are you thinking about a gator blade or something like that? As far as I know, the "high lift" Honda blade is intended for bagging/discharge only. In some ways I don't see the point, the double-mulching setup discharges and bags super.

Suffice it to say that if everyone else considers their GXV140 to be "a beast", I still have some kind of problem somewhere. I haven't mentioned it, but there's no oil consumption or smoke of any either. Fuel economy is great when conditions are such that it isn't at WOT all the time
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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Craig, sounds like you and I have nearly the same mower. Mine's a Masters, a 2001 HR215K1SXA. They had a non-SP version of these things, but I can't imagine using it. They're truly beasts!


Yes, mine is an HXC meaning hydrostatic drive and "Canada" version (I don't know of any differences versus the American HXA though).

non-SP? I'm having trouble decoding the acronym - long day.
 
Your carb is attached tight to the engine (air leakage)? Is there any way to check for muffler blockage?
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Your carb is attached tight to the engine (air leakage)? Is there any way to check for muffler blockage?


Me? I've worked on it several times and I know things are tight. There are rubberized metal spacers involved and the seal always seems intact. Everything runs "fine" with no surging (except on cold start in cool conditions for about 10s) and engine speed is very well controlled by the governor. It just seems like there's not enough oomph at WOT.
 
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
I still bag 1/2 of the backyard for cleanliness reasons. They haven't been tearing open the bags or refusing pickup, but it is in our municipal bylaws. I don't think it's all that uncommon as a landfill diversion tactic either.


Our city collects yard waste on a separate day, and all the yard waste (be it grass clippings, leaves, branches, bushes, etc) gets mulched up. Small stuff is composted and larger woody waste is avaialble as free landscape mulch that you can go pick up. Works great.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
I still bag 1/2 of the backyard for cleanliness reasons. They haven't been tearing open the bags or refusing pickup, but it is in our municipal bylaws. I don't think it's all that uncommon as a landfill diversion tactic either.


Our city collects yard waste on a separate day, and all the yard waste (be it grass clippings, leaves, branches, bushes, etc) gets mulched up. Small stuff is composted and larger woody waste is avaialble as free landscape mulch that you can go pick up. Works great.


I probably should have been more clear in my statement. I'm not required to mulch by law, but it is against the bylaw to put grass clippings out for collection (yard waste or otherwise).

In my area yard waste is picked up on the same day as garbage (every other week, with recycling and green bin collected every week) but by separate trucks. It all gets mulched etc... but if everyone suddenly started putting out 5 bags of clippings every week imagine the wasted fuel, truck space, labour etc... They'd need to more that double the count of yard waste collection crews out on the road to handle the increase.

I see where they are coming from, I just wish my mower mulched better
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I understand. I just find it curious that they tell you it's illegal to put clippings in the trash, but they also won't pick them up for you. A tangent to your question, I know.

I'm really at a loss about the mulching performance. You DO have the mulch kit installed, right, with the mulch plug? I know the HR deck isn't the best mulcher on the block in terms of quality of cut, etc, but the engine should still pull it through. I mulched a friend's yard one time; her husband was deployed and the weeds in the back were about 2 feet tall. I showed up with the HR215 with the bagging kit, but quickly realized it wouldn't have bagged all that. So I went home and got the mulch plug and I won't say that it never bogged down or powered through it all at full ground speed and didn't miss a beat...but it worked as well as I could reasonably expect out of any small vertical shaft engine.

I used a complete tank of gas on that yard, and I normally get 2 or 3 mows on my yard with the same amount of fuel. And both lots are 0.25 acre. So that's how hard that li'l engine was working that day.

I WOULD remove one of the blades and run it with the single blade and see if it works any better. It won't cost you anything but a few minutes' of time.
 
I cut again last night as the grass has been growing like crazy. I was probably cutting up to an inch off at the highest setting on the deck - some areas more, some less. This was the first spell of two days without rain so the grass was "dry" but "well hydrated".

It was getting through mostly OK, coming down from governed speed a couple of times and it would have completely stopped once if I hadn't backed up and tipped up the mower so all the mulch could fly out.

I did not try removing a blade yesterday (too much of a hurry to get it done before dark) but while it was bogging I reached down and operated the governor arm - it was confirmed to be at WOT.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I understand. I just find it curious that they tell you it's illegal to put clippings in the trash, but they also won't pick them up for you. A tangent to your question, I know.


It's "illegal" to put grass clippings out for any kind of collection - trash, yard or compost. If I had enough property and the desire to have a giant pile of festering clippings I could do that, but I have neither. This is a reasonably dense sub-urban community so we're not all sprawled out.

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I'm really at a loss about the mulching performance. You DO have the mulch kit installed, right, with the mulch plug?


Yep - factory mulching kit with the plug, twin blades etc.... I've been cutting the bulk of our lawn at the top height setting for years now for a variety of reasons - keeping the grass longer seems healthy for the lawn and keeping the deck higher improved my mulching performance.

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I know the HR deck isn't the best mulcher on the block in terms of quality of cut, etc, but the engine should still pull it through. I mulched a friend's yard one time; her husband was deployed and the weeds in the back were about 2 feet tall. I showed up with the HR215 with the bagging kit, but quickly realized it wouldn't have bagged all that. So I went home and got the mulch plug and I won't say that it never bogged down or powered through it all at full ground speed and didn't miss a beat...but it worked as well as I could reasonably expect out of any small vertical shaft engine.


You spoke to height but not to density. Lush 2' tall carpet of thick juicy grass? Or a thatchy field with the odd clump of weeds? Either way, I have little confidence in my HR to mulch and kind of heavy job. In your situation I would have shown up with my side discharge chute
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I used a complete tank of gas on that yard, and I normally get 2 or 3 mows on my yard with the same amount of fuel. And both lots are 0.25 acre. So that's how hard that li'l engine was working that day.

I WOULD remove one of the blades and run it with the single blade and see if it works any better. It won't cost you anything but a few minutes' of time.


I hear that. This time of year the fuel consumption is way up but later on in the heat/dry of summer I can get several mows without even checking the gas.
 
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
In your situation I would have shown up with my side discharge chute
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If I had that for the HR, I'd have used it. I never discharge, so I don't own that kit. But after that experience, I did buy a side discharge plate for my Lawn-Boy 10330. So if I ever have to do a job like that again, I can now discharge the grass.
 
100% agree that Snapper HiVac is best bagger
and Toro SUPER Recycler is by FAR the best mulcher.
Remember a Toro Recycler is NOT a Super Recycler!
Super Recycler has a different blade and mulching mechanism.
 
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