Harley's Tick,Tick, Tick with synthetic oil?

[Lost1]

Originally Posted By: OnTheFence
I've seen three bikes with temp senders in the pan. Each ran identical temps with Syn and Dino oil running down the road.

This has been my experience as well with my bike and the different dino & syn oils I've run.

Some say they see temp drops with syn, some say they haven't...

 

[Lost1]

Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
Redline oil (group 5 synthetic), has long been a favorite of Harley riders for lower oil temps.

THat oil does not retain heat, more than any oil ive ever seen. I dont know if it doesnt absorb heat or it just dissipates it instantly. Notorious for retaining condensation though , not getting hot enough. On their website Ive seen them recommend their thinner oil's so they will get hot enough not to have these condensation issues.

I was at an aviation engineering seminar awhile back and this was briefly addressed. (Not Redline oil per se, just ester-based synthetics in general.) According to what we were told ester-based pure synthetics are not hygroscopic and therefore can't absorb & hold water in suspension, which greatly inhibits the process of evaporation. The water tends to pool in the lowest parts of the engine and sump where it can foster corrosion.
Likewise, this is why you don't want to use synthetic brake fluid in a braking system designed for DOT3- moisture accumulates in the lowest parts of the system (usually the calipers) and causes rust/corrosion.

No doubt a tribologist could better explain the process better than me- I'm just a mech relaying what I was told. Made enough sense to me though that I quit running Grp 5 synthetics and switched to Grp 3/4 oils in all my vehicles and equipment...

 

[OnTheFence]

Originally Posted By: Lost1
Originally Posted By: OnTheFence
I've seen three bikes with temp senders in the pan. Each ran identical temps with Syn and Dino oil running down the road.

This has been my experience as well with my bike and the different dino & syn oils I've run.

Some say they see temp drops with syn, some say they haven't...


Somehow, I don't think those claims would hold up to even the slightest amount of science. Secondly those claims are never backed by any data. Like what temps do you run? My running temps look like this

70 - 80 Degrees 200 or less
80 - 90 Degrees 210ish
90s 220 - 230..... Mostly in the 220 range.




90s -

 

[Lost1]

Originally Posted By: OnTheFence

Somehow, I don't think those claims would hold up to even the slightest amount of science. Secondly those claims are never backed by any data. Like what temps do you run? My running temps look like this

70 - 80 Degrees 200 or less
80 - 90 Degrees 210ish
90s 220 - 230..... Mostly in the 220 range.


Up to about 90- temps run 210 or less depending on ambient temp.
90+ temps run 210-230 depending on ambient temp & traffic.

I've found a that a t-stat controlled oil cooler really helps keep the temps where they should be, i.e. 210-220. As mentioned, I've seen no temp differences between syn & dino oils, nor have I seen any temp differences between oil brands.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
Redline oil (group 5 synthetic), has long been a favorite of Harley riders for lower oil temps.

THat oil does not retain heat, more than any oil ive ever seen. I dont know if it doesnt absorb heat or it just dissipates it instantly. .



Redline V-Twin oil is what I use and noticed the same thing. Mobil 1 was pretty good (I used to use it), but by far the worst oil I've ever used is the HD Syn3....too overpriced for it's performance when compared to other oils offered.

 

[Klotz1]

That's exactly how I feel, some people use full synthetics, engines ticking away, they do not care and have no motor issues. Me, the noise drives me nuts, I'm going back to a good heavy dino and just change it more often, Thanks for all your feedback.

 

[OnTheFence]

Originally Posted By: Lost1

Up to about 90- temps run 210 or less depending on ambient temp.
90+ temps run 210-230 depending on ambient temp & traffic.

I've found a that a t-stat controlled oil cooler really helps keep the temps where they should be, i.e. 210-220. As mentioned, I've seen no temp differences between syn & dino oils, nor have I seen any temp differences between oil brands.


Are you using an oil cooler now? I traded for an RGUltra late in the summer last year. (Which came with a cooler and the 103) Haven't had very many miles with the temp guage in, but I am pretty much seeing the same temps as the 96.


Looks like our numbers are pretty much the same.

 

[Lost1]

Originally Posted By: OnTheFence

Are you using an oil cooler now? I traded for an RGUltra late in the summer last year. (Which came with a cooler and the 103) Haven't had very many miles with the temp guage in, but I am pretty much seeing the same temps as the 96.


Looks like our numbers are pretty much the same.

Yes, I'm using a cooler now. I put a 10-row Jagg low-mount with thermostat on at about 5k miles, and it has been on for 3 1/2 years/13k miles. The t-stat starts to open at 185* & is fully open at 195*. Not sure if the HD cooler comes with a t-stat (probably does) but that would explain why our temps mirror each other fairly close, even with yours having a larger engine. The t-stat will always try to keep the oil at a minimum temp of 200-220, which is good for burning off condensate suspended in the oil.

 

[Klotz1]

OPTIMUM OIL TEMPERATURE FOR BOTH XL AND TWIN CAM.

Harley's answers:

(The optimum operating oil temperature for both engines is actually a temperature depending upon the ambient temperature and type of riding. Ideally, the bulk oil (the oil in the tank) should be between 220F and 250F during normal operation. This ensures that any wator vapor that gets into the oil from the combustion process is vaporized and can be purged from the system through the breathers.For elevated ambient temperatures , the bulk oil can safely operate at temperatures up to 300F during extended idling or high interstate cruising. Harley Davidson's oil has been formulated with enhanced anti-oxidaation package to minimize oil oxidation concerns above 250F The reserve alkalinity of our oil formulations has also been boosted to minimize any acid formation that could with elevated oil temps.)

I would make sure you are running at least 220F in your oil tank at any outside temperature.

 

[outshined]

Originally Posted By: Klotz1
That's exactly how I feel, some people use full synthetics, engines ticking away, they do not care and have no motor issues. Me, the noise drives me nuts, I'm going back to a good heavy dino and just change it more often, Thanks for all your feedback.


If valve train ticking is driving you nuts...just wait until you get around 30k-40k on your twin cam. When the spring tensioners on your cam chains wear out, you'll have more noise and bigger problems than just..tick, tick, tick. Thankfully, Harley went with hydraulic tensioners in the later models.

Good luck with it!

 

[Klotz1]

Thanks, My Pennzoil GT 25W50 (dino) just came in that I ordered, good ZDDP with other heavy additives, I did a VOA, from blackstone, came back strong,so they say.

 

[Lost1]

Originally Posted By: Klotz1
Thanks, My Pennzoil GT 25W50 (dino) just came in that I ordered, good ZDDP with other heavy additives, I did a VOA, from blackstone, came back strong,so they say.

Sweet- let us know how the engine sounds with the Pennzoil. Where did you get it and how much was it?
I'm as happy as can be with the VR1 dino- my engine is the quietest it's ever been- even quieter than the factory fill HD360. Zero ticking! YES!

 

[Klotz1]

Absolutely, bought it from the oil-store.com $55.89 case of 12 shipped to my door. Stay tuned! The weather has been nasty here in MI, not worth riding yet, maybe this weekend. Thanks.

 

[Lost1]

Good price- that's about what I paid for VR1 locally, not on sale. I have no doubt the PZ will work well for you. I've been using PZ & Valvoline oils for 40 years and have never been disappointed in either.

You sir, are livin' large- a Harley and a Challenger. The Harley speaks for itself, and IMO the new Challenger is the epitome of testosterone on wheels. Every time I see one I spend an hour running around peeing on fire hydrants, marking my territory.
That thing in your rear view says "I'll eat your babies."