Steel MTB

[JHZR2]

Who rides one (a good one not a wal mart special)... really on trails? Im looking at the raleigh xxix-g as a cost effective alternate to a stumpjumper comp or canondale flash or GF Paragon.

$2k is OK, but $1139 is better. Would prefer a few better conmponents, but I think they will do.

 

[Spazdog]

Tensile Steel kinda' had a resurgence about 10 years ago. It's not as stiff as an aluminum frame. It tends to mute road vibrations better

My friend had a steel framed Trek. It was only about 3lbs heavier than my aluminum framed Gary Fisher.

For recreational riding, steel can make a very nice bike.

 

[tomcat27]

I've got a Kona - although my trail use is limited to one or two special outings a year. so I have two sets of wheels/tires. makes a huge difference to have less aggressive tires on the dirt trails I usually ride.

 

[Brons2]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
It's not as stiff as an aluminum frame.


That's a serious misnomer, steel has a much higher tensile strength than aluminum. Aluminum frames are stiff because they have to be, they do not have the fatigue strength to have as much flex as steel. Since steel has that higher tensile strength, the frame metal can be made thinner and it doesn't need oversized tubing.

That being said I do have a Cannondale MTB, but I sold off my aluminum road bike and bought a steel one. I am much happier on a steel road bike. I'd get a steel MTB too, but I don't ride it enough to justify the purchase, I'm more of a roadie these days.

 

[JHZR2]

Since Ive never ridden a steel MTB over technical stuff, I dont know what to expect really. But I am leaning hard to the raleigh vs a stumpjumper comp or GF paragon. The $900 delta buys lots of upgrades...

Im no weakling, but store the bike in my basement so heft is important to me just for convenience (sometimes my wife is nice and brings it up for me). It doesnt seem like in the end all the delta is more than a couple pounds though.

 

[wavinwayne]

The picture below shows the steel framed Gary Fisher Aquila that I rode from '00-'03. I loved that bike, but I needed a full suspension rig for the rocky technical terrain of our local trails. So I parted the Fisher out and replaced it with an Ellsworth Truth. I kept the Fisher frame, though; it's sitting in my attic, and I don't plan to ever part with it.

 

[JOD]

cost (purchase and replacement cost) no option, I'd take a plastic bike, done properly. But a carbon MTB frame that's good is a lot of money, and it's still more impact prone than a metal bike.

Compared to aluminum, in general I'd prefer steel for a hard tail. It seems to have the perfect blend of impact resistance, comfort and stiffness, at least in my book. A lot of it depends on how the finished product is done more that the material. Cannondale manages to make aluminum frames that actually ride well, since they're designed more for performance than looks (no stupid tube shapes and greatly oversized tubes). But the trade-off ends up being a frame which isn't as impact resistant and (IMO) still doesn't ride as well as a well-done steel bike.

The frame on the XXIX+G is a really nice ride. Are you looking at a '10 or '11?

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Since Ive never ridden a steel MTB over technical stuff, I dont know what to expect really. But I am leaning hard to the raleigh vs a stumpjumper comp or GF paragon. The $900 delta buys lots of upgrades...

Im no weakling, but store the bike in my basement so heft is important to me just for convenience (sometimes my wife is nice and brings it up for me). It doesnt seem like in the end all the delta is more than a couple pounds though.

I'd be happy with steel especially with your savings. I guess in the $2k bike range aluminum frames will be lighter, but in the $1k and under market, I bet there are aluminum frames that are heavier than a decent steel one. Also not all Al frames are super stiff, I've got a Al 2000ish norco race frame that is pretty flexible. Part of it is my steel seat post but its not much different than my old steel frame.

 

[JHZR2]

Looking at the stumpjumper comp, and canondale flash, the Al frames are really light. But the XXIX-G (10 model, on closeout) is also not as heavy as Id have thought.

I guess the reality is that the frame is only a small component of the big picture.

My concern is compliance versus stiffness. Steel absorbing shocks and bumps is great, but if it flexes too much, Im not happy. My current bike made of easton ultralight aluminum, flexes under certain pedaling conditions such that I hear the tire rubbing the chainstay during part of my stroke. I dont want that kind of flex from whatever it is.

The other issue with the XXIX-G is that it doesnt have 1.5" headset, 15QR or similar strengthened axles, or BB30 or similar heavier BB. As a bigger rider, Id think that these things would be beneficial... Not sure though as Im not smart enough on components, etc.

The bike is this:

http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/mountain/2010-mountain/xxixg/

Code:




Sizes

SM, MD, LG, XL

Frame

4130 Butted Chromo w/CNC Dropouts, Replaceable Insert

Fork

Rock Shox Tora SL, 80mm

Cranks

Truvativ Fire X 22/32/44t

BB

Truvativ GXP External Bearing

F.Derail

Shimano Deore

R.Derail

SRAM X-7

Shifter

SRAM X5 9spd

Br.Levers

Avid Elixir 5

Brakes

Avid Elixir 5 185/160mm Rotor

Gear

SRAM PG950 9spd (11-34t)

Rims

Weinmann XM280

Tires

Geax Saguaro 29x2.2

Pedals

Avenir ATB Resin Platform

Handlebar

Easton EA50 31.8

Stem

Avenir 200 Series, 3D Forged 31.8

Seatpost

Avenir 200 Series 27.2x400mm

Seat

WTB Laser V Comp

Headset

Ahead 1-1/8" w/Alloy Cups

Colors

Dark Brown

Spokes

14g Stainless MAC w/Alloy Nipples

Grips

Raleigh Dual Density

Extras

Water Bottle Mounts, Cateye Reflector Set

Note

Specifications are Subject to Change




Id have preferred x7/x9 level for everything and Elixir R (I have CR on my current bike and like them), but for the cost delta, that stuff can go on when needed in the future. The headset IIRC is labelec cane creek not ahead, FWIW.

Dont know much about the rims, would have preferred some strong light ones but that is another price point thing. Not sure of the hubs, but I assume perhaps they are basic shimano. If/when Id upgrade wheels, Id likely add king hubs. Ditto for the BB, though I think I have a GXP on my canondale road bike and it seems to be fine...

Thoughts? Thanks for all the insight!

 

[IndyIan]

I wouldn't worry about getting the stronger parts unless you going to be doing jumps on the bike? I was about 180lbs when it took an awkward landing off of a 5 stair drop to flat spot my rear single wall rim on my old $700 hardtail XC bike. I did many many hard races on that wheel before then, and I'm actually still using the front rim, but its always been on a suspension fork for its 19 year life.
If you do think your going to do jumps then you might as well get a freeride bike and not worry about breaking stuff...
For hard XC I'd probably just replace the bars every couple years and maybe the cranks and stem if its a longer one at 5 years, I've had both break and its not a great experience.

 

[huffmuds9320]

I have a Diamondback Outlook which I got from Sports Authority for ~$240, not really high end stuff but I'm satisfied with it. Based on what I find the 2010 and up model of this bike has 6061 aluminum frame instead of the hi-ten steel frame. It has the hi-ten steel (high tensile steel?) frame, not sure if its a truly steel frame. It is noticeably a bit heavier than the aluminum frame bike I had. The ride is nice and feels very stable especially going downhill. My only complaint is the gearing on the bike is not quite mountain bike gearing, it has 21 speeds (3x7). The low gears are not quite as low as I like it so have to struggle a little bit on steeper hills.

 

[JOD]

Well, the '11 XXIX+G checks almost all of the boxes, but is obviously a more expensive bike (1,600-1700, I believe); Fox F29 w/15mm axle, SLX 10 speed, Shimano 505 hydraulic brakes...rest of the parts are comparable. Honestly, I think the fork alone is worth the price jump. I like the stiffness of the 15mm axle, and I'm 140lbs. As a bigger rider, you'd probably like it more.

The steel frame has big enough diameter tubing that the BB area and rear end feel plenty stiff when standing on it hard, and the Shimano 2-piece cranks are plenty stiff enough. If I never see another BB30 bike it'll be too soon. I have it on my road bike and it's a maintenance hassle. On a mountain bike?? no thank you. The bearings are just too exposed, and the preload 'design' is the most ghetto thing I've ever seen. Plastic shims and a wavy washer? really?? Unfortunately I'm stuck with it on my road bike, but if you can avoid BB30 I'd strongly recommend doing so.

 

[nthach]

If you're willing to piece one together:
Frame: http://surlybikes.com/frames/karate_monkey_frame/ or http://surlybikes.com/frames/troll_frame/
Groupset: http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/products/mountain/deore.html or
http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/products/mountain/slx.html
or if you want to go SRAM:
http://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/series/269 or
http://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/series/268

You'll also need wheel and the other bits.
The nice part about Surly frames is that fact they're pretty versatile about how you can build them up.

Otherwise, if you're looking at a complete, look at Salsa. Salsa and Surly are both owned by QBP.

 

[rpn453]

Do old ones count? When I bought my 1999 KHS Team, I had the option of an Easton Ultra-Lite or True Temper OX Gold frame, and I chose the steel one. I liked the idea of a longer fatigue life and a little more flex, and my previous steel KHS frame had been good to me. No complaints, but I never thought I'd have any about the Easton frame either. Strangely, my girlfriend-at-the-time's aluminum 1999 Cannondale F1000 was a pound heavier despite a similar component group and had a more flexy frame. I'm not light and I pedal hard so, like you, I could get the chainstay to contact the tire under hard pedaling. I've never had that happen with my steel frames, until they break. I guess it's harder to make aluminum chainstays as laterally stiff as steel ones since there isn't room for big tubes in that location.

My 1993 KHS Montana Comp with True Temper AVR tubing then became my summer commuter. The right dropout broke on that frame during street riding a few years ago. No big drops or anything, but I did put a lot of miles on it under a lot of power. My buddy had the same frame and wasn't using it, so he gave it to me but that one also broke in the same spot last year. Yet another buddy had the same frame in storage so I received that one just a couple days ago. I'll build it up soon. When it breaks - presumably in the same spot - maybe I'll take them all in together for welding. It's obviously a design defect. I'll have to get a good TIG welder to build up a little material in that area.

 

[rpn453]

I'll add that you can test the lateral flexibility of the chainstay area by pressing on the side of the pedal with your foot while the corresponding crank arm is in the six o'clock position. It doesn't take much force to get a feel for how flexible it is in that area, and it was easy to get the frame to touch the tire while doing that on the aforementioned Cannondale.