Redline 10w30 on '99 Civic Si turbo-2nd analysis

[JPowers]

Well, I really abused my car this time! I got a new clutch and Quaife LSD for the transmission. Just to test out the LSD, I launched it hard a couple of times and ended up bouncing off of the rev limiter a few times by accident because it revved so fast. This isn't good in a car with a 10.2:1 compression ratio that wasn't meant to have a turbo.

Blackstone mentioned that Redline samples are known to have higher levels of potassium and sodium, but this can also be coolant. Iron is also higher than average. Is this the beginning of the end?

 

[Bror Jace]

Jpowers, things don't look good for your over-stuffed 4 banger. Here's a few samples of Red Line Oil out of my Civic which had a headgasket (coolant) leak which progressively got worse:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000001

--- Bror Jace

 

[Patman]

I'm curious, why is there a question mark in the antifreeze column? You're paying Blackstone to check for this value, so they should be providing you with this info, not telling you that "they don't know"

IMO, they should rerun the sample and give you the exact antifreeze value so you know for sure what is going on here.

 

[Jelly]

Man, that's some high compression with a turbo!

I might take some heat for this, but I'm gonna suggest you try Mobil Delvac1.

Use of turbo
Extremely high loads on valve train and engine bearings
Thicker fluid oil film will rob you of a few horsepower, but give you better protection, and better resistance to boundary lubrication conditions.

It's expensive, but still much cheaper than a new engine.

I'm sure others will continue to help you out...

(Edit - Also make sure you have no coolant leaks...boost has a way of tearing through gaskets!)

[ September 16, 2003, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Jelly ]

 

[buster]

Unless it is a coolent leak, Redline=Overpiced and Over-rated.

I bet in ten years if this site still exists you guys will be waiting for Redline to clean more sh@t out of the engine to obtain a good UOA. But it probaly is a coolant problem. Why do all the Redline users have cars that are either dirty or broken? We need to see some UOA's of Redline in a CLEAN ENGINE with ZERO problems to really judge this stuff. Good luck.

[ September 16, 2003, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

The only wear metals really out of place was iron. With the type of abuse this engine see this is not a huge suprise. Every other wear number is great. With this said it still is not that bad.

We have seen Chevy Small Blocks with wose numbers under ideal conditions! I think the important thing to remember is that two data points does not make a trend!

 

[Al]

Yea-could be head gasket time

Good luck. The viscosity is almost a 40 wt. Antifreeze can do that

 

[pscholte]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jelly:
I might take some heat for this, but I'm gonna suggest you try Mobil Delvac1.

---

No heat, Jelly, just a comment that I would wholeheartedly agree with you--IF--we we weren't concerned about the health of JPowers engine. I'd even suggest looking into Amsoil S3K for superior protection--IF--...

 

[sprintman]

IMO RL 5W40 or even 10W40 would be a better choice than 10W30 in this combo. Theres an excellent UOA of 5W40 in a turbo engine here somewhere.

 

[TR3-2001SE]

I don't understand this one. He has no water in the oil. If he had a leak he would have antifreeze and water right? What am I missing? The potassium is just a small amount and I would think could be something normal for redline??
Blackstone mentioned that REdline samples are known to have higher levels of potassium
Just trying to learn. Viscosity looks normal to me by the chart? This looks like a good UOA to me.

[ September 16, 2003, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: TR3-2001SE ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

DO you have a greedy fuel computer and boost controler? I ask because with 10.25:1 and any significant boost you would think that the stock computer would have problems keeping the mixture rich enough and keeping the timeing in check. You would also think that timeing would be an issue? Tht is awful high static compresssion to be playing with ! If you lead numbers go high you will know that detonation is a problem!!

Ya, I always wished some nice engineer would include fuel mapping for 20,000 feet below sea level but they never seem to do this. It would also be swell if they would leave you a few extra ports and a few extra pages for additional programing memory!

 

[JPowers]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
Why do all the Redline users have cars that are either dirty or broken? We need to see some UOA's of Redline in a CLEAN ENGINE with ZERO problems to really judge this stuff.

---

LOL...Well, my engine certainly isn't dirty, and I hope it isn't broken. Anytime you modify a car like I did you can expect more wear. The rev limiter in my car is a fuel cutoff, but the ignition still fires and the car is under full boost, which causes detonation. I'm sure that's why the iron levels are higher than usual. Whether or not the elevated levels of potassium and sodium are because of coolant remains to be seen. I have 2 quarts of Redline left. What I might do is switch back to Mobil 1 again in 3500 miles and then do another analysis. Mobil seems to have gotten their act together and I was thinking about it anyway. I was at Wal Mart and saw 5 quart containers of Mobil 1 for $18 about a month ago. By the way, I only pay $80.89 after sales tax for a 12 quart case of Redline from a local place, so that's not much more than what most places sell Mobil 1 for.

Patman, the reason they put the question mark in the anti-freeze column is because of the elevated potassium and sodium levels. Here are their comments:

"We've seen many samples of Red Line oil where potassium and sodium show up. These elements in your sample are probably from the oil itself but it is worth mentioning that they can also come from anti-freeze in the oil. We are seeing no other signs of anti-freeze. This oil was in normal physical condition for a 10W/30 and appears to be getting the job done in your engine. Iron went higher this time (compare wear to universal average levels for this type engine) and is above agerage, but it may be related to your longer oil use. Stay at 3,500 miles next sample."

Bror, I hope you're wrong, but it's possible. When the kit was put in my car, the 2 geniuses that installed it didn't bleed the air out of the coolant. With the A/C on, the temps got way too high when at a stop a few times. I remember one time when I pulled in the driveway to let the car idle (cools down the turbo) and forgot to turn off the A/C. The temps started climing pretty fast, I panicked and shut the car off. I don't think that was a good idea and may have warped the head slightly, I don't know. Since I bled the air out, everything is fine. Even though I see what looks like oil residue in my coolant overflow, I've done compression tests, leak down tests, and even NAPA's leak tester and found nothing wrong. What looks like oil residue might also be from Water Wetter I've been told.

Thanks for all the comments, I appreciate it!

 

[JPowers]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
DO you have a greedy fuel computer and boost controler?

---

I'm currently running the Greddy fuel management that came with the kit, along with RC 310 injectors. It runs very rich. I have a Hallman boost controller, but it's only set to about 6 psi. I also have in my possession, but not installed yet, a programmable engine management system called Hondata, along with RC 440 injectors so I can have it dyno tuned to run like a stock turbo car.

Knowing my luck, I'll shell out the $400 to tune my car, blow the motor, then have to pay for a rebuild and another $400 tuning session.

 

[slider]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
Unless it is a coolent leak, Redline=Overpiced and Over-rated.

I bet in ten years if this site still exists you guys will be waiting for Redline to clean more sh@t out of the engine to obtain a good UOA. But it probaly is a coolant problem. Why do all the Redline users have cars that are either dirty or broken? We need to see some UOA's of Redline in a CLEAN ENGINE with ZERO problems to really judge this stuff. Good luck.

---

I agree, Redline does really terrible in my car.
After all, you did say all Redline users, didn't you?

(you're funny)

 

[Jelly]

quote:

---

Originally posted by pscholte:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jelly:
I might take some heat for this, but I'm gonna suggest you try Mobil Delvac1.

---

No heat, Jelly, just a comment that I would wholeheartedly agree with you--IF--we we weren't concerned about the health of JPowers engine. I'd even suggest looking into Amsoil S3K for superior protection--IF--...

---

Well, it seems sometimes on here people will give you a bunch of "junk" if you recommend something outside of the norm..

I don't believe he has any coolant contamination problems (yet), but when your making big power with a small engine, and pushing it hard, your not gonna get a great deal of miles out of it.

If it was me, and I wanted it to live as long as possible, I'd go get some Delvac1 (some truckstops, or local oil distributor) with a K&N oil filter, simply because the K&N supposedly flows better than other standard filters.

Good luck with your ride...

 

[Bror Jace]

Guys, regarding the coolant leak, please read the thread I posted a link to at the top of this thread. The question mark means Blackstone has some indication there might be a coolant leak ... but they're not sure. The scientific term for this is that the test results are "inconclusive."

JPowers, I'd switch to a cheaper oil and do more frequent changes. If you are getting traces of coolant in your oil (and that's where my money still is) you want to flush that out often. I might even try a dino oil like Chevron or Pennzoil ... in 10W30.

Bleeding the air out of a Honda is not easy, so it would not surprise me if you had a bubble or two, here'n there. Have to run the heat, then bleed, the A/C, then bleed, idle some more, bleed s'more ... do a dance to the Earth Goddess Gaia, bleed s'more, etc ... And sometimes you still don't get it all.

I'd use something else and re-test after no more than 3,500 miles. Best of luck.

--- Bror Jace

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Red Line does not have that much sodium. Get pressure test, compression test, or send it to Terry. Something is messed up

 

[Drew99GT]

Time for a compression test. Guys I know with turboed stock short block Civics do compression tests about every week just to make sure

Just be prepared, or have the cash necessary to buld your block, because it's not a matter of if, but when. Unless of course you just baby the thing around, but that's not why your boosting

 

[Idrinkmotoroil]

NA readings on Redline are around 25 ppms or so, thus you have a good bit more added to that. Get a leakdown test, that should answer your question easily. If you've been running with a bad gasket then those wear numbers arent bad, gotta expect extra wear in that case and Redline may have saved your behind. Get the leakdown test done ASAP and take it from there. good luck. If you want to play you have to......, well you know that saying.

 

[JPowers]

I guess you guys didn't see what tests I've done above because I wrote a small book. Sorry about that! I have done compression tests myself multiple times since the kit was installed and had a leakdown test done fairly recently. Compression was 205, 200, 200, 210 a week ago. I don't know what the reading was on the leakdown, but they told me that if the headgasket was bad, there would be bubbles coming to the surface in the radiator fluid when air is being pumped through the spark plug holes. I've thought about this and it would seem to me that the bubbles would have to travel pretty far to be visible in the radiator opening.

Idrinkmotoroil, what were you talking about when you said normal reading for NA is 25 ppms?

Friends of mine think I'm being paranoid, and say that if there was a coolant leak I'd know it. I've heard of the head lifting under boost in some cases, but not at 6psi that I'm aware of.

BTW, I forgot to reply to those who suggested another oil. Redline hasn't really failed in this case, so why would I switch? Idrinkmotoroil even mentioned that Redline may have prevented more damage. The only reason I'm going to switch is to resolve the potassium and sodium question. Mobil 1 has had some good UOA reports, so next oil change I'll give it a try again.