For anyone with a "ecotec" 2.2 liter engine...

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This is for anyone with a GM car that has this motor. the timing belt tensioner does not let enough oil flow through it to get to the timing chain at idle. It is a zero tolerance motor and will destroy itself without oil. I'm just hearing about this now on a chevy forum. my car has one.
be advised:
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showt ... id/219345/
 
Yet....I don't hear a lot of stories of Ecotec engines self-destructing. Ecotecs are one of the most reliable 4-cylinder engines produced recently.

BTW, your link doesn't seem to work.
 
If this is true. Why don't they do more r/d on this new stuff to work out the bugs before it gets to the consumer? I'm all for buying american cars, but these guys need to be more thurough and find the design flaws before selling this stuff to us.
 
This is more common on the earlier 2002-2003 models I believe. The ecotec is one of the most durable 4 cylinder engines that GM has put out in many years. I own two of them, and they both run like a clock.
 
Originally Posted By: JustinH
This is more common on the earlier 2002-2003 models I believe. The ecotec is one of the most durable 4 cylinder engines that GM has put out in many years. I own two of them, and they both run like a clock.



You got it, and most of it was related to the 2002 J bodies.


I have three of the ecotecs, and I've had no issues in 8 years.


In fact, I'm just now replacing the serp belt on the 03....
 
Even with the early models that have the old tensioner it's really not as bad as having to replace a timing belt. It's just that it is not as well known or expected.
 
Originally Posted By: JustinH
This is more common on the earlier 2002-2003 models I believe. The ecotec is one of the most durable 4 cylinder engines that GM has put out in many years. I own two of them, and they both run like a clock.


+1 actually +3...
We have 3 of these in the family and they run sweet. 2007, 60000+ 2008, 70000+(not a typo) 2010, 15000+
 
Thru early MY '03 Ecotecs had a poorly designed timing chain oiler nozzle that does not oil well at low rpms and tends to plug up as well. The worst problems were from little old ladies that never went out of town or over 2k rpm and these chains could break well under 50k miles. Saturn made engines were worse than GM corporate engines made in NY and Saturn also used these engines in the 2000 and 2001 Saturn L series exclusively.

Do note that to this day GM has denied any problems and there are not even any TSBs on this problem. Saturn did do a "recall" but only 20k or so mid 2001 L series for "bad timing chain links" although the oiler nozzles were the defective component.

Before MY 2005 the original design timing chain tensioner had problems with loosing tension but from 2005 on these engines are golden. There may be a TSB for this problem but I am not sure. Very little or no oil usage in a GM four cylinder engine usually in a fair sized vehicle is great and high mileage engines rarely use oil as well.
 
Uh oh... girlfriend's parents have an ecotec 2.2 in a 2002 grand am...

I think it's got 130K on the clock... time for replacement?
 
Does the newer design have a different part number? All of the replacement tensioners I see for sale look like the older style pictured in that link.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Yet....I don't hear a lot of stories of Ecotec engines self-destructing. Ecotecs are one of the most reliable 4-cylinder engines produced recently.

BTW, your link doesn't seem to work.


you got rid of your cavalier just in time!
grin.gif
 
Thank you for the information. At some point I'll want to Frankenstein an older A-body Celebrity with a 2.2 Ecotec and a 5-speed. I'll make sure to use a 2005+ engine and not one from a Saturn LS or Alero/Grand Am. Checking prices on car-part, it seems the newer models are cheaper anyway. A 2003 Alero engine with 85K and a 90 day warranty runs $475, while a 2005 Saturn VUE engine with 85K and a 90 day warranty runs all of $295. Interesting!
 
I recently finished repairing a friend's 2003 Saturn Vue with the 2.2 Ecotec and 5-speed GETRAG manual. When it reached over 139k miles it began sounding like a diesel at idle. This was a strong warning sign that the timing chain guides were failing. The adjustable guide's plastic friction strip was broken and the chain had begun to eat into the metal substructure under it. The fixed guide broke into 5 pieces, 2 of which went down into the oil pan. The fixed guide's lowermost bolt broke off, as did the upper one in the head behind the removable plug. On his way home from work the chain jumped, bending all 16 valves. Worn timing components, a damaged valvetrain, and two broken bolts were the result, not a "destroyed engine". I removed the head and had a machine shop install 16 new Enginetec valves I purchased and they replaced the valve guides and seals then did a valve job. I reinstalled the original cams, and put in 16 new Enginetec lifters. I used a product called Semichrome and the polishing tip on a cordless dremel to polish the cam bearings, prelubing everything with 10w30 synthetic oil. That took care of the head. I couldn't get the broken bolt out of the engine so I removed the block from the top, taking it to a metalworking shop who removed the bolt and tapped it for a slightly larger custom bolt for the lower fixed timing chain guide (the one on a boss). I replaced the balance chain set & timing set with Cloyes kits (sprockets, oiler, tensioners, guides). The timing chain tensioner is of the last of three designs, the factory installed tensioner was stuck in the retracted position and was the first design version with a big "O" ring. I finished the repair off with a new Enginetech head gasket, reused the original front cover gasket and swapped on a 4-to-1 stainless header & Autolite plugs. I dropped and cleaned out the oil pan. After it was back together it purrs like a kitten, is buttery smooth, and the owner states it has more power than it ever had before. Sitting at a stop you cannot hear or feel the engine running.

Let me state that had the owner replaced the timing and balance sets at 100k miles the cost and repair downtime would have been considerably less. I didn't charge him anything for labor. Parts and contracted services came to about $900 and here again had he had the mentioned parts kits replaced the cost and downtime would have been minimal. It's a fact that nearly all I4 and V6 engines these days have plastic chain guides in them. With chains rubbing continuously against plastic it will eventually wear out. Folks, these absolutely HAVE to be replaced, there are no if's and's or but's. I think it is a bit comical that people resist having such maintenance done on a otherwise good running engine as if it will continue to run well forever. Nothing could be further from the truth. Along with the Ecotec chain kits comes a updated tensioner and oiler, these are not extras.
 
Originally Posted By: johnnydc
If this is true. Why don't they do more r/d on this new stuff to work out the bugs before it gets to the consumer? I'm all for buying american cars, but these guys need to be more thurough and find the design flaws before selling this stuff to us.
that's right these companies should be more like Toyota and Subaru.
 
Originally Posted By: ThomasJagGuy
I recently finished repairing a friend's 2003 Saturn Vue with the 2.2 Ecotec and 5-speed GETRAG manual. When it reached over 139k miles it began sounding like a diesel at idle. This was a strong warning sign that the timing chain guides were failing. The adjustable guide's plastic friction strip was broken and the chain had begun to eat into the metal substructure under it. The fixed guide broke into 5 pieces, 2 of which went down into the oil pan. The fixed guide's lowermost bolt broke off, as did the upper one in the head behind the removable plug. On his way home from work the chain jumped, bending all 16 valves. Worn timing components, a damaged valvetrain, and two broken bolts were the result, not a "destroyed engine". I removed the head and had a machine shop install 16 new Enginetec valves I purchased and they replaced the valve guides and seals then did a valve job. I reinstalled the original cams, and put in 16 new Enginetec lifters. I used a product called Semichrome and the polishing tip on a cordless dremel to polish the cam bearings, prelubing everything with 10w30 synthetic oil. That took care of the head. I couldn't get the broken bolt out of the engine so I removed the block from the top, taking it to a metalworking shop who removed the bolt and tapped it for a slightly larger custom bolt for the lower fixed timing chain guide (the one on a boss). I replaced the balance chain set & timing set with Cloyes kits (sprockets, oiler, tensioners, guides). The timing chain tensioner is of the last of three designs, the factory installed tensioner was stuck in the retracted position and was the first design version with a big "O" ring. I finished the repair off with a new Enginetech head gasket, reused the original front cover gasket and swapped on a 4-to-1 stainless header & Autolite plugs. I dropped and cleaned out the oil pan. After it was back together it purrs like a kitten, is buttery smooth, and the owner states it has more power than it ever had before. Sitting at a stop you cannot hear or feel the engine running.

Let me state that had the owner replaced the timing and balance sets at 100k miles the cost and repair downtime would have been considerably less. I didn't charge him anything for labor. Parts and contracted services came to about $900 and here again had he had the mentioned parts kits replaced the cost and downtime would have been minimal. It's a fact that nearly all I4 and V6 engines these days have plastic chain guides in them. With chains rubbing continuously against plastic it will eventually wear out. Folks, these absolutely HAVE to be replaced, there are no if's and's or but's. I think it is a bit comical that people resist having such maintenance done on a otherwise good running engine as if it will continue to run well forever. Nothing could be further from the truth. Along with the Ecotec chain kits comes a updated tensioner and oiler, these are not extras.


Omg i should be SO worried.
Fact: I know someone with approx 380k original miles on a 2008 2.2 ecotec.
The tensioners can go bad from poor maintenance and can cause sloppiness in the chain. This results in the chain beating on the guides, causing breakage. GM updated the tensioner twice to be more forgiving in less than favorable maintenance situations.

Every 2.2 ecotec ive seen with a broken timing chain/tensioner problem looked like it had tar for motor oil and an owner that couldnt be bothered by maintenance.
 
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