Universal Tractor Fluid Question

[scsims]

I just recently changed my UTF fluid in my tractor. I noticed that the TSC UTF, Traverler Premium Univeral Tractor Fluid that I put in seemed thinner than what came out. The original fluid would pour off my finger like a stream of syrup and the TSC UTF doesn't stream it drips.

The manual calls for API GL4 performance category and says that Tractelf MM H3 was in it from the factory.

The following oils reccomended in the manuel.

1. Gulf Universal Tractor Tranmission Fluid
2. Shell Donax TD
3. Mobile Fluid 424
4. Tractelf BF 12
5. Tractelf C4 -1000
6. Exxon Torque Fluid 56
7. Hydro Clear Power Train Fluid

I called the dealer and asked about the TSC Traveler Premium Tractor fluid and they said that it would be fine.

But I was concerned when I noticed the difference in thickness. Everything seems to work fine.

Should I be concerned??

 

[MolaKule]

The fluid that came out was probably oxidized and had thickened from use.

I think you'll be ok. My uncle's and cousins near Mayfield run Travelers HF's in just about everything from Ford 9N's to the big monster Ford diesels.

 

[scsims]

Does oxidation happen fairly quickly? The oringal fluid had about 55 hours of use and probably about 2-2.5 years old.

 

[doitmyself]

Contact member Jim Allen about the TSC UTF. I "think" he reported that it had dismal additive levels.

 

[scsims]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Contact member Jim Allen about the TSC UTF. I "think" he reported that it had dismal additive levels.


Yeah I did a search and read those threads..... I wonder if there are aftermarket additive packages that can be safely added?

Or is it possible that the TSC stuff is better than it was a couple of years ago. I talked with one of the Warren Oil techs before I put it in the tractor.

 

[deeter16317]

The Mystic JT-5 oil is supposedly pretty good...its a 20w oil, which is on the thicker side of the hydraulic fluids (from what I remember). The reason I point that out is that its available at TSC too.

 

[Jim Allen]

The TSC is a multigrade oil suitable for winter, which is another reason it might seem "thinner" than what you drained out.

But, yeah, I was kinda uninspired by the VOA compared to what I saw in other oils, but if you make sure you change it out in good time, I doubt you'll have issues. TSC also has a version called "Renew" for older tractors, which is their version of a "High Mileage" product and it has more seal conditioners and such in it. I've never actually seen it in stores.

What tractor is it? If it's not one of the big brand names, which would seem to be indicated by the list of recommended fluids you presented, you are probably even more "all right." Generic tractors often have generic appetites for oils because they don't use any special technologies. The same could be said for the old stuff I run..

My lesson in aforementioned investigation is that, most often, you get what you pay for. The low rent stuff is often decent to fine, but the middle price stuff just has a bit more "stuff" in it and is more often in the good to very good category. Better value. The high-end boutique stuff, IMO, often can't justify it's cost... with those of us in the more "normal" operational realm, anyway.

 

[scsims]

It's a Mahindra.... 55 horse power tractor. I'll probably change it out next year to the Cheveron 1000 HTF and be done with it. I will likely not put more than 50 hours on the TSC stuff before then.

 

[Jim Allen]

Forgot to add, oxidation is fairly slow if the temps are kept low. Deterioration will be slower if the tractor is stored indoors and has a temperature stable environment to avoid condensation. IMO, you can go many years on a THF. with a reasonable situation... but , again, it's dependent on the robustness of the anti-oxident additive package in the oil.

 

[doitmyself]

Jim, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with ag. equipment.

What is "many years" for your equipment and conditions?

Years ago, I had a beloved Oliver 550 at my workplace and the UTF would visibly start turning milky at around 6 years. Based on this experience, my current workplace JD fleet gets changed out around 5 years +/-, with maybe a hint of visual change in the fluid. This is about 500 to 600 hours, 1/2 the manual's OCI of 1,200 hrs.

What is oxidation and how does moisture increase it? Wouldn't a "hard run" burn off the moisture?

Thanks.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
What is oxidation and how does moisture increase it? Wouldn't a "hard run" burn off the moisture?



Except for maybe a breather cap, the hydraulic system is pretty much a closed system.

When the oil cools, moisture will form and become entrapped in the oil. Moisture is H2O and when the water molecules separate, the oxygen reacts with the oil. Oxygenation then starts to degrade the oil by attacking the good anti-oxidant molecules. The anti-oxidant will only guard against oxidation for a finite time until it becomes depleted.

In addition, water will emulsify with the oil and turn it milky. The oxygen will also attack any iron or steel in the system and cause rusting, since the anti-rust and metal deactivator additives have a finite lifetime as well.

Replacing the oil replenishes the additives, and gets rid of moisture.

Hydraulic oils rarely get hot enough to drive off any moisture.

 

[doitmyself]

That's some excellent info, MolaKule, that I can tuck away when people accuse me of over servicing equipment. My equipment doesn't accumulate real world hours, so I have to balance (guess) between hours and time. Many people think that fluids should visually look bad when you change them (it's too late then).

You, too, are appreciated by many here for your expertise. It's so easy to pick out people here who know stuff and the rest who think they know stuff! Thanks for sticking around.

 

[Jim Allen]

To add to what Mola said, though, the tractors that use the final drive as a hydraulic reservoir may be more prone to moisture than a true close hydraulic system because they are vented better and more "open" but they will also get warmer and so dissipate the moisture faster. After of a day of tillage on my old Farmall, the gear housings are hot to the touch and the hydraulic hoses are also quite warm. 150-170F.

I think three to five years is certainly a good place to be looking hard at a change but, again, I think it may depend on how the tractor is used and stored. Does the oil get hot enough for long enough to bake out moisture? is it stored in a temp-stable area so condensation is minimal? Under the right circumstances, the oil could go farther. Anecdotally, I see it all the time.. farmers that run THF for decades with no seeming adverse effects. I wouldn't dare, but...

Case in point, when I got my old Farmall, it had been at least a decade and possibly two since the THF had been changed. The filter had an '80s date stamp and the oil was pretty dark (a dark honey color)...often a sign of oxidation...but not milky at all. I should have had it UOA'ed but I was getting so much flack from my bookkeeper (aka my wife) about how much I was spending on such things that I decided to pass on that one. Wasn't the hill I was going to die on, if you know what I mean.

 

[scsims]

Are any of the additives availble to the consumer?

 

[Jim Allen]

Not that I know of. Better to just buy a better oil anyway. Augmentation without of an oil specific knowledge of what will happen could be costly. By the time you buy any additives anyway, you've spent more than you would if you had just bought the better stuff in the first place. My advice... run this oil out a coupla years then get something a bit better.