What is better? PAO Only or Pao/Ester Oil?

[beanoil]

Originally Posted By: dtt004
Hi.


PAO are simply highly refined mineral base stocks. Under the definition of synthetic, it's marketed as such because it is manipulated in the lab. Otherwise, olefins come from the ground from dead dinosaurs.



Fail.
In the simplest terms, the base stock of "Synthetics," Poly-alpha-Olefin(PAO)starts as ethylene gas, a simple two-carbon molecule that is built up to a 10-carbon molecule. Three of these super molecules are combined to form PAO, a base stock that offers a number of advantages over Mother Nature's version.

 

[riggaz]

Originally Posted By: BritGerCarLuvr
I always thought that PAO, far outperformed, outlasted and remained in-grade better and more reliably than the "other" synthetic (or synthetic wanna-be).

Now, I've run across both, and was wondering which was the "better" oil.

I am basically comparing 0W30 (German Castrol)which is PAO and,
Total Quartz Energy 9000, 0W30 which is the old Elf Excellium Full-Tech which is a PAO/Ester rich oil.They both meet all the same specs.

I am just trying to understand the PAO (vs) PAO/Ester (vs) Ester based oils as well as the pro's and con's of either.


Getting the application right is the number 1 most important thing

there are a lot of group 3 hydrotreated oils that outperform pao oils and vice-versa

pao/ester oils tend to be for racing/high performance applications but again you are going to find group 3's and 4 that will out perform some pao/esters and vice-versa.

the additive package is, in most cases, more important than the base oil which is there usually as an additive diluter. PAO's generally have a lower pour point and a higher flash point but are not as good at diluting additives as hydrocracked oil.

 

[dparm]

Low TBN isn't necessarily a bad thing. Ester-heavy oils typically need higher TBNs, so all that tells you is that it might be very light on ester basestocks.

I tend to suggest ester for anyone with the money, though honestly it's benefits are geared a bit more towards the 'infrequent' driver or the 'extremely aggressive' driver.

 

[ChuckLove]

If I could buy Ester rich oils availible over the counter at my local store I would. But for now I will stick with GC and SSO. I have been trying to get Redline locally, but all I can find is 40 weights.

In my opinon Ester is the future of lubricants.

 

[dparm]

A lot of synthetics have small quantities of ester anyways.

 

[riggaz]

Originally Posted By: ChuckLove
If I could buy Ester rich oils availible over the counter at my local store I would. But for now I will stick with GC and SSO. I have been trying to get Redline locally, but all I can find is 40 weights.

In my opinon Ester is the future of lubricants.


Only in the right application

It can't do everything well

 

[dparm]

That is why most ester-rich oils use a blend of esters. Each has it's strengths. And that's where you get the marketing speak like "triple ester".

 

[benjy]

most all oils can be purchased on-line + usually cheaper so BS on the i want ester oils locally on the shelf!!! manufacturers show specs of FINISHED oils, these specs can be "propped" up hiding the actual quality or not of the base oil + as stated its the total package that performs well or not. way high viscosity indexes can be from a LOT of VII's + just a decent base oil, so in time as the VII's that get permanently sheared will have a detrimental effects on the lubricant.

 

[JFAllen]

Originally Posted by GMorg
I want to elaborate on what d00df00d has already said in response to the posts by dtt004.

There are no PAO only, formulated motor oils.

Esters did not originate with racing.


Isn't Amsoil Signature Series 100% PAO (obviously there is 10-15% additive pack, so total PAO would be in the 85-90%, but the rest of the base stock?)

With Esters, I seem to recall that they were originally developed for gas turbine (jet) engines back in the day (1930's/1940's) as the conventional mineral oils of the day were garbage and not up to the task...
Even today Esters are used in Gas Turbine (Jet) engines.

Regards
Jordan

 

[StevieC]

JFAllen, we don't know about Amsoil because they won't specify as they want to keep as much of their formula quiet as possible. Certain members on here have "speculated" that they are no longer fully PAO because they aren't advertising it any longer so that can't be confirmed either.

IMO it doesn't matter what the oil contains so long as it does the job properly and the only way we can judge that is with time. UOA's will give us certain insights but it's not a full picture unfortunately.

One thing I can say is that if Amsoil is touting the 25,000 mile drain interval with their signature series oil and those running that aren't having engine failures so it has to be made of excellent base oils and additives or it wouldn't hold up this long. Lots of folks on Youtube running the 25,000 mile OCI without UOA's and their engines aren't dying. We would have seen lawsuits and forums of people complaining about how they were burn't by this claim and that isn't happening.

If a moderate OCI is used like 5K - 10K miles then Amsoil is of no benefit really over any other quality oil IMO.

 

[JeffJeffreyMcJef]

Speaking of which, is chemlube a good Group V oil? from where I come from, it has not much advertisement and costs only about 70 USD for 4 quartz, which is cheap for a full synthetic ester based. But performance wise?

 

[kschachn]

Which of their formulated oils is a "Group V" that's available there in Malaysia?

 

[JeffJeffreyMcJef]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Which of their formulated oils is a "Group V" that's available there in Malaysia?


https://www.lazada.com.my/catalog/?...;spm=a2o4k.home.search.go.79ca24f6sd22N0

Thats the malaysian version of Amazon/Best Buy which shows the listed products on sale

10W 40, 10W 30
20W 50
and semi synthetic

 

[kschachn]

Ahh, OK "ester based". That doesn't really mean anything specific as to the base oil composition. Sure it may contain some esters, but so do a lot of other synthetic oils. I wouldn't call this a "Group V" oil but maybe that's just me.

None of the ones I saw claim any certs other than API, and when I check the API licensee directory it doesn't appear that that specific product is listed. So at that point you are now dependent on the company reputation and vague claims given by their website. In this case I don't even see where the company gives a list of "suitable for" or recommended specs it is claimed to achieve?

What specifications or approvals do you require?

 

[330indy]

Redline Oil rules