Synthetic, Lithium, 5% Molybdenum grease needed

[93Chewbacca]

Hi All!

I am looking for a Synthetic, lithium based, 5% molybdenum grease with a NLGI #2 rating. This grease also needs to be approved for wheel bearings. Does anyone know of a grease that meets these requirements?

Thanks!

 

[doitmyself]

Lubriplate has a product that "says" it is good for all types of bearings. Buttttttttttt, I was under the delusion that moly grease was not optimum for wheel bearings.

Having said that, I believe Ford does/did recommend moly grease for their wheel bearings. Go figure.


http://www.lubriplate.com/pdf/pds/3_39 SYN-3002_and_SYN-3001.pdf

 

[93Chewbacca]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Lubriplate has a product that "says" it is good for all types of bearings. Buttttttttttt, I was under the delusion that moly grease was not optimum for wheel bearings.

Having said that, I believe Ford does/did recommend moly grease for their wheel bearings. Go figure.


http://www.lubriplate.com/pdf/pds/3_39 SYN-3002_and_SYN-3001.pdf


Doitmyself, thank you for this info!

Side note: The reason I need a moly grease with wheel bearing approval is because this grease is for the Birfield joints (front universal joints) on a 93 Toyota Land Cruiser. The Toyota service manual calls for a lithium based grease with moly additive. The birfield housing also (sometimes) shares grease with the wheel bearing cavity, and thus the greases mix together eventually (sometimes). I (and many other Land Cruiser owners) have been looking for a grease that could be used in both places without any issues.

This could be exactly what we've have been looking for. Thanks!!

Do you know of a good place to order this stuff in regular tubes?

 

[Tempest]

I just put CAT Desert Gold in one of my wheel bearings and all seems good.

It's not lithium, but it won't matter for what you are using it for.

 

[WagonBoss]

I don't believe there is any mainstream company making a grease to your spec. NLGI has a listing of certified products you could go through if you have the time. In general, a synthetic base that is GC rated won't have a moly content and most 5% moly grease won't be GC rated. I haven't run across the exceptions. Valvoline Palladium and Mystik JT-6 high temp are available in lithium bases with 3% moly, and are GC certified, but aren't synthetic. SWEPCO 101 might be the closest, but I don't know the % of moly.

BTW, there was another thread not long ago on here about grease for Toyota knuckles.

 

[93Chewbacca]

Originally Posted By: WagonBoss
I don't believe there is any mainstream company making a grease to your spec. NLGI has a listing of certified products you could go through if you have the time. In general, a synthetic base that is GC rated won't have a moly content and most 5% moly grease won't be GC rated. I haven't run across the exceptions. Valvoline Palladium and Mystik JT-6 high temp are available in lithium bases with 3% moly, and are GC certified, but aren't synthetic. SWEPCO 101 might be the closest, but I don't know the % of moly.

BTW, there was another thread not long ago on here about grease for Toyota knuckles.


WagonBoss, do you know of any greases that meet all the requirements, but have a 3% moly content?

Thanks!

 

[Rob_Roy]

What is your application for this grease? Why the synthetic requirement?

Texas Refinery's Moly Lithplex grease is one of the most rugged lithum complex greases I am aware of, but you will not find it in small quantities (Case Qty is 50 tubes). It is also tacky, which may or may not be desirable depending on your application. Here is a link to the spec. sheet: http://texasrefinery.com/pdfs/LB/lb-molylithplex.pdf

 

[IH8mush]

Hey 93 Chewbaca,

I found your posting on Mud,

I have been researching this for the past 2 years,

Your last post on mud said that Bob is the oil guy would shed some light on this,,

Well your in for a [censored] of a story ,

You can start here and read "A grease story thread"

Or you can go to the4x4network where I have been attempting to get to the bottom of your very question,

Frank,

 

[IH8mush]

Rob_Roy Offline


Registered: 10/26/08
Posts: 364
Loc: Northern, NY
What is your application for this grease? Why the synthetic requirement?

Rob his application is a closed steering knuckle axle,

Uses a rare, seldom seen form of grease,

 

[IH8mush]

here is a picture of it

 

[IH8mush]

On the upper portion of the knuckle there is a fill plug and a Semi fluid form of grease is filled in there from the factoy

Although this form of grease is mis identified as axle seal failure mostly,

This is photo graphs from the latest Rig I checked out, a 94 Landcruiser,

You are pretty much able to identify the ones that still have this factory form of semi fluid lube in them, by the discharge of grease coating the ball, forming a barrier , and coating the knuckle as it should,

All to often this is identified as axle seal failure, but on this rig, the differential portion of the axle was a tad bit overfilled yet a low level of self leveling grease in the knuckle portion

 

[IH8mush]

here is the link to the network about this rig and this axle, and grease

http://www.the4x4network.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3505

 

[IH8mush]

The "Light of Bob"

Okay 93 Chewbacca

I will try to sum this up as quickly and as accurately as I can

You have identified what I refer to as a "Master of the Obvious" observation, you want the same grease for the wheel bearings as the knuckle,

In no mechanical assembly are 2 different types of greases used in a part that is not sealed from the 2

Error # 1 in your Toyota FSM

What you need to clear the slate on is one thing,

Grade of grease, which is the #2 Error in your Toyota FSM

Grade of grease in simple laymans terms is the amount of oil in it,

posted is a picture of a Honda axle, a CV shaft, a average CV shaft,

Axle shafts for import vehicles are made by 3 main outfits for all rigs,

GKN NSK or NTN,

Your "birfield" Joint is a NTN, no more no less, In no CV joint application is a #2 grade grease found from production,

always #1 or thinner all the way to a oil, a thick syrup like Oil,

Oil would be the best overall lube for this application,

Oil

So clear the slate with this additive mentioned in the Toyota FSM, it is a smoke and mirror trick,
They use the British English spelling of the additive to baffle you with ,

Forget about it, a wonderful additive found in all sorts of oils and greases,

Now to contain oil in this application is no trouble at the wheel bearings but problematic at the wiper seal,

Manufactures use a "Specialty Fluid" that is #0 grade or thinner,

I have attempted to find any all information about this form of grease, but it is proprietary, Trade Secret, or known as Intellectual property,

In short by reading the Toyota FSM your sent on a wild goose chase, and worse than all that

From what I have learned and read is that the proprietary specialty fluid used in areas that are prone to leakage, is
INCOMPATIBLE with lithium based grease,

The 3rd error in the Toyota FSM

What makes this so completely disgusting is that is not a error, persay

Done intentionally,

Term is Dis information, So As a mechanic working on one of these Toyota axles for the first time, looked at this lube identified it as a form of lube, went to a Toyota dealer and was told this grease was private,

Started studying grease, and #1 the first thing I found out in a hurry is how little I knew, working with it for years, but never being educated about it,

So on your Mud thread, mention "Backwoodsgoop" and you will see and hear the Toyota sales folks come out of the wood work,

Your IH8 Mud show is no more than a online extension of a Toyota dealership, propagating Dis information,

You mentioned Bob is the oil guy could possibly shed some light on this situation,

YES sir, just hope it aint to bright for you,,

 

[93Chewbacca]

My opinion is that IF the grease inside the Birfield joint is too thick, and it gets slung out during rotation of the joint, that it will have a very hard time finding its way back into the joint. IF the birfield joint gaskets/seals could hold a lubricant thin enough to run back into the joint while the joint is NOT spinning, we could use an oil-bath type system which would be a superior lubrication system for the joint.

If there is a perfect weight grease/oil that is thick enough so that it wont leak profusely from the knuckle gasket/seal, and thin enough so that it will run back into the joint when the joint is not spinning, I would view that as an good lubricant for the joint.

 

[Tempest]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfLLaDsGWk0

Interesting joint.

I'm not familiar with these joints or trucks. Is the grease supposed to be smearing on the exterior of what appears to be a giant ball joint?

 

[Rix]

chewbacca:
here's the factory joint, with a NON runny grease.
there's still plenty in the joint.

Don't over-think this.

 

[93Chewbacca]

Thanks Rix, that looks good.

I will drop the idea of using a liquid lube. SO..... does anyone have any OTHER greases to recommend that meet my original criteria?

Thanks!

 

[IH8mush]

Chewbaca.

Do not under think this, what my Rixxer is showing you there is pictures of a knuckle that he is repairing for axle seal failure,

What he thinks is #2 grease saturated with gear oil,

What seems to be the common diagnosis of the lube he is showing is #1 grade, which is suitable, a lil to thick to be ideal, but certainly suitable,

A #2 grease is not, you mentioned the main reason why, it is to thick and will not "Self level" or flow back into the joint,

what Rix is posting as Factory grease there is what he diagnosed as axle seal failure,

The ideal thickness for this application is the #0 grade, only slightly discharges and flows,

Not only back into the joint but also up to the upper trunnion bearings,

Now you are well on your way to being a "Master of the Obvious "
Chewbaca,

Well on your way, You understand the need for the same grease in the wheel hub, and one that will work its way into the joint and after being spun out,

You are correct a #2 grease does not do that,

So you nailed 2 of the things that seem to be a major hang up for most folks,

and if you can understand the hydrodynamic or "Rheological" aspect of upper trunnion bearing splash lubrication ,

You have got it ,,

I have been at this quite a bit and gotta say MR Chewbacca, you have a good grasp on this situation,

 

[IH8mush]

Chewbacca,

Here is a photo of a 1981 Toyota I redid, the entire procedure is documented on Utah Rock crawler, thread call "Toyota Core axle"

The was taken approx 6 months after repair, ideal amount of discharge,
Coating the ball protecting it as it should,

and this was a good test axle, Ball was in bad shape, real pitted and a deep groove in the straight ahead position,

But still the discharge acceptable,,
Class 1 leakage, other wise known as "sweating"

 

[erock]

Tempest - It's just an rzeppa-style CV joint. The lubrication need is the inside of the "bell" of the joint, specifically the balls and the tracks on both the bell and the inner spider. Since this is in a solid axle, it's not generally subject to continuous operation under deflection like a CV joint on, say, a front-wheel-drive car.

Continuous operation without deflection means that those balls don't ever move with respect to the tracks they're in, yet are under a fairly high load. 80-series Land Cruisers are heavy pigs and are full-time 4wd. The only time the joint is under deflection is when steering.

The interior of the bell is hollowed out somewhat, meaning that the grease can't completely fling out, even if you could spin it fast enough. But realistic operating speeds are in the 600-700 rpm range on a joint that's only ~4" in diameter.

In my opinion, concerns about mixing the knuckle grease with the wheel bearing grease are overstated on any axle that has been properly maintained in the last 150,000 miles. This has been hashed out more times than I'd like to count, so I'll save the technical argument for another post assuming anybody cares.



All that in mind, I'm planning to go with an aluminum complex #2 with moly the next time I do the birfs in my LX450. I'm not especially hung up on the base oil composition since I don't see much benefit to synthetic for this application.