Diesel Oils in gasoline passenger car?

[WBoer]

Here we have truck diesel oils that are not recommend for use in petrol engines... think its bad for cats?

This is the diesel 10W40 pdf 10W40 diesel
And this other 10W40 10W40

 

[onion]

When I bought my '01 Lumina in 2006, it came with maintenance records from day one- seeings how it was a fleet vehicle. It had been run with Phillips 66 15W40 mixed-fleet bulk oil since the first oil change- 6000 mile OCI's, mostly highway miles. Had 159,000 on it when I bought it.

Being a GM 3100, the engine had leaking intake gaskets. I replaced those, and filled it up with John Deere 15W40. Since then I've run whatever oil is cheap and available in it- mostly various 15W40 oils (Delvac, Delo, Rotella, Patriot, John Deere, etc.). If the oil is rated SL or later... and it's between 5w30 and 15w40... I'll dump it in this engine. Got 227,000 miles on it now and the engine still runs like new. OCI's vary depending on my mood and operating conditions- but generally speaking I'll change the oil at 3000 miles when it's lots of stop & go and short trips... I'll change it at 5000 when it's mostly highway miles.


I had a '94 Corsica with a very similar 3100 engine. I maintained it since 2000, when I met my (now) wife. Had 80,000 miles on it at the time. I did much the same with its engine oil- ran anything that was cheap and available, rated SL or later, anything between 5w30 and 15w40. Pretty much the same line-up of oils that I use in the Lumina, with the addition of CaseIH 15w40 and lots of Supertech 10w30 in the earlier years. That car lived a long HARD life of mostly short trips and in-town driving, punctuated by occasional 600-mile round-trips through the alternately scorching/freezing wastes of Eastern Colorado and Western Kansas. The car finally met its end 1200 miles into a 2000 mile road trip back in September... the transmission died a sudden and complete death- no warning whatsoever. The car had 182,000 miles on it. The transmission was dead, the body was falling apart, the interior was worn out, the a/c was functional but cobbled together... but the engine still ran perfectly and didn't use any measurable amount of oil.

I can't say how the 15w40 mixed-fleet oils affect catalytic converter performance, as we don't have emissions testing here in Kansas. But we lived in Colorado for two or three years, and the Corsica always passed the emissions test there. For what it's worth, the Lumina has a downstream oxygen sensor, and it's never set any codes despite being the original... so the converter must still be working to some extent.

 

[panthermike]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
In Phoenix, certainly. Generally a 10W30 wouldn't be optimal but where you live is an exception.


I figured the weight's fine. I have used a 15w40 and 20w50(mechanics oil of choice) in a '00 1ZZFE with no issues. I just know the Zinc level is debated sometimes. But there are many stories like the one above, people use HDEO in passenger cars and have many miles.

I'm not going to run HDEO regularly in cars, but just wanted to try it. T5 probably would be a good summer oil.

Thanks for your input Jim.

 

[Gokhan]

I use Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 myself. But, in my case, 15W-40 is one of the grades recommended in my owner's manual, as well as Sx/Cy oils, in addition to Sx oils.

Switching to a higher viscosity will usually not harm your engine but switching to a lower viscosity usually will. Higher viscosity means thicker oil film and this translates into less engine wear in most cases. Higher viscosities are especially good for high-speed and/or high-temperature driving.

As far as Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 is concerned, for me it's the best oil in the market. It's extremely robust, probably even more so than synthetics, and has a great additive package. Since it's a CJ-4 oil, it won't poison the catalytic converter in any car.

The main difference between HDEO (diesel-engine) oils and the gasoline-engine oils is the soot dispersants present in the HDEO oils. You don't really need them for gasoline engines but they won't hurt your gasoline engine either.

I personally would recommend Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 for any older gasoline engine that uses xW-30 or higher viscosities, as long as you don't use it in the winter in a very cold climate. One minor drawback is reduced fuel economy (about 1 to 2 MPG) as a result of switching to a higher viscosity. The only other thing you will experience from it will be increased engine durability -- something most people will prefer over the slight loss in fuel economy.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: sirgerman
MObil delvac 1300 safe to use in a gasser engine ?
how many miles will it last ? 5000 Miles in a good compromise ?


That depends. If the Delvac 1300 meets the what the manual calls for with respect to API and viscosity, sure. I use Delvac 1300 in my Audi in the summer, since it only calls for an API spec (no ILSAC or APEA) and since Delvac 1300 is SM it exceeds the engine's requirements, and 15w-40 is the preferred summer grade. Other than an HDEO, there aren't a lot of 15w-40 oils out there.

If your vehicle requires, say, an SM/GF-4 or better and a 5w-30 grade, well, Delvac 1300 isn't going to meet your requirements, and may be an issue under warranty. After warranty, it's up to you, and certainly depends upon the vehicle.

As for mileage, that's a shot in the dark. It depends upon how it's driven and what kind of a vehicle it is, which we don't know.

I see that you are using 5W-30 instead of 5W-40 in the winter for your Audi. Is the reason price? Or do you not prefer synthetic oil?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I see that you are using 5W-30 instead of 5W-40 in the winter for your Audi. Is the reason price? Or do you not prefer synthetic oil?


I certainly like synthetic oil, but I have no problems with conventional oil. I have a fair bit to use up and the prices have been very attractive lately. I'm just about out of 5w-30, but still have a fair bit of 10w-30 left. I'd prefer to use that in my Audi rather than the F-150, for which I want something with more ZDDP, rather than buying an expensive additive. I still also have a fair bit of Delvac 1300 15w-40 left.

Ideally, a 5w-40 year round would be perfect for the Audi. I can get Delo 400 LE 5w-40 at a very good price in the five gallon pail. However, I don't push my OCIs too far and that negates one advantage of synthetic.

So, I have two options I'm mulling over. I can run Delvac 1300 15w-40 in the summer and Esso XD-3 5w-30 in the winter, or a 5w-40 (probably Delo 400 LE) year round. That would apply to both vehicles.

I definitely am a "fan" of synthetics. However, that's tempered by my real world experience of running a fleet to a combined mileage in the millions with plain old QS GB 10w-30 with 6,000 mile OCIs.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Garak
So, I have two options I'm mulling over. I can run Delvac 1300 15w-40 in the summer and Esso XD-3 5w-30 in the winter, or a 5w-40 (probably Delo 400 LE) year round. That would apply to both vehicles.

I definitely am a "fan" of synthetics. However, that's tempered by my real world experience of running a fleet to a combined mileage in the millions with plain old QS GB 10w-30 with 6,000 mile OCIs.

I somewhat disagree that synthetics allow longer OCIs. OCI is more dependent on the engine than the oil type.

I think the main advantage of synthetics is the cold-weather performance. You would indeed benefit from 5W-40 because you wouldn't have to switch back and forth between oil grades and you wouldn't have to hope that the weather doesn't get too cold before the next oil change.

Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 is better than any synthetic 5W-40 for warm-weather use and reasonable OCIs. It's the only multigrade oil that satisfies the CF-2 performance category, which is a category that can usually only be satisfied by monograde oils. How this translates is that it has exceptional, long-lasting viscosity characteristics that offer maximal protection against viscosity loss and oil-film breakdown in severe driving conditions, which can't even be attained with synthetic 5W-40 oils. It also has higher viscosity, especially higher HTHS viscosity, than 5W-40, which translates into more wear protection for most people who use xW-40 grades.

Also, for engines that burn some oil, synthetics are not a very good choice, as they don't burn well and produce a bad smell as well. Another possible disadvantage might be some seal compatibility and leak issues. Synthetic oils also tend to sacrifice some additives (such as moly) in order to make up for the higher cost of the base stock.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Garak

So, I have two options I'm mulling over. I can run Delvac 1300 15w-40 in the summer and Esso XD-3 5w-30 in the winter,


Hi Garak, I never considered XD in the grade of 5W30. It is the 0W30 and 0W40 that are the sexy ones

. I for one currently use and have in the past XD 0W30 with great success in simple 4 cylinders and 6. I am curious why you use 5W30 over the 0W30...especially being in frigid Saskatchewan...is it cost?

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Garak
So, I have two options I'm mulling over. I can run Delvac 1300 15w-40 in the summer and Esso XD-3 5w-30 in the winter, or a 5w-40 (probably Delo 400 LE) year round. That would apply to both vehicles.

I definitely am a "fan" of synthetics. However, that's tempered by my real world experience of running a fleet to a combined mileage in the millions with plain old QS GB 10w-30 with 6,000 mile OCIs.

I somewhat disagree that synthetics allow longer OCIs. OCI is more dependent on the engine than the oil type.

I think the main advantage of synthetics is the cold-weather performance. You would indeed benefit from 5W-40 because you wouldn't have to switch back and forth between oil grades and you wouldn't have to hope that the weather doesn't get too cold before the next oil change.

Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 is better than any synthetic 5W-40 for warm-weather use and reasonable OCIs. It's the only multigrade oil that satisfies the CF-2 performance category, which is a category that can usually only be satisfied by monograde oils. How this translates is that it has exceptional, long-lasting viscosity characteristics that offer maximal protection against viscosity loss and oil-film breakdown in severe driving conditions, which can't even be attained with synthetic 5W-40 oils. It also has higher viscosity, especially higher HTHS viscosity, than 5W-40, which translates into more wear protection for most people who use xW-40 grades.

Also, for engines that burn some oil, synthetics are not a very good choice, as they don't burn well and produce a bad smell as well. Another possible disadvantage might be some seal compatibility and leak issues. Synthetic oils also tend to sacrifice some additives (such as moly) in order to make up for the higher cost of the base stock.


Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 is Mobil's best API truck oil.

"Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 is a fully synthetic supreme performance heavy duty diesel engine oil..."

"Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 10W-30 and 15W-40 are extra high performance diesel engine oils..."

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: BobFout

Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 is Mobil's best API truck oil.

"Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 is a fully synthetic supreme performance heavy duty diesel engine oil..."

"Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 10W-30 and 15W-40 are extra high performance diesel engine oils..."

No, extra-high performance means extra high with respect to supreme performance.

Well, "supreme," "extra high," etc. are of course marketing gimmicks only and they don't mean much by themselves. Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 for example has much higher HTHS viscosity than ESP Formula M 5W-40 -- 4.3 vs. 3.8. If you need high HTHS, such as with an old engine in hot climates like myself or with some high-performance engines, then ESP Formula M may not only be a bad choice but can also cause engine damage. But, then, if you live in a cold climate, a 5W-40 oil like ESP Formula M would be a better choice. In short: it depends what kind of oil is better for your engine.

PS: Regarding marketing gimmicks, many standard-grade VHS tapes are sold under names such as "Premium Grade." But the real high-grade VHS tapes are normally sold under "Extra High Grade." So, in the world of VHS tapes, "Premium" is a quite misleading marketing gimmick and a bad choice and "Extra High Grade" is the good choice. But, again, without doing careful research, the consumers wouldn't know which is better.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I somewhat disagree that synthetics allow longer OCIs. OCI is more dependent on the engine than the oil type.


They certainly can allow for longer OCIs, but that, as you point out, also depends upon the engine. I've gone with 6,000 mile OCIs back in the 1980s and 1990s with conventional QS GB 10w-30. There are some vehicles, especially back then, with which I would not have attempted such a thing. All things being equal, assuming that the engine isn't ridiculously hard on oil and one is doing UOAs when straying from manufacturers' recommendations, the synthetic will go longer.

Also, one has to be wise with one's oil choice. For example, for whatever reason, Delvac 1 5w-40 has significantly higher TBN than does Delvac 1 0w-40. I don't know if their retention curves would be the same for the same engine. It is, however, noteworthy. One simply can't just dump in a synthetic and assume they can automatically double or triple their OCI. I certainly wouldn't do that on my old truck with a carb, particularly back when the previous carb was causing all kinds of fuel dilution. I wouldn't have wasted my money on synthetics, let alone extended an OCI with them.

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I think the main advantage of synthetics is the cold-weather performance. You would indeed benefit from 5W-40 because you wouldn't have to switch back and forth between oil grades and you wouldn't have to hope that the weather doesn't get too cold before the next oil change.


The various 5w-40 and 0w-40 grades did work rather nice in the winter. It also is nice to not worry about the wild weather swings here. The Delo 400 LE 5w-40 in the 5 gallon pail here is a bargain. A supplier here says she can get me Mobil 1 0w-40 at about $4 per litre, too. That's extremely tempting, considering GC on special is $6 to $7 per litre and TDT is rarely under $8 per litre.

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 is better than any synthetic 5W-40 for warm-weather use and reasonable OCIs. It's the only multigrade oil that satisfies the CF-2 performance category, which is a category that can usually only be satisfied by monograde oils.


It's definitely a quality oil. There are those who talk about the benefits of synthetic in high heat. While that's true, Delvac 1300 has been used in agricultural equipment using full boost for 8 to 12 hours solid without any problems.

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Also, for engines that burn some oil, synthetics are not a very good choice, as they don't burn well and produce a bad smell as well. Another possible disadvantage might be some seal compatibility and leak issues. Synthetic oils also tend to sacrifice some additives (such as moly) in order to make up for the higher cost of the base stock.


For synthetics and consumption, my concern is the cost. Why burn off oil costing in around $7 per litre when one can burn off oil costing $2 per litre? I haven't had any seal issues with synthetics. On occasion, if the engine is leaking already, it may leak more with synthetic of the same grade; at least that's been my experience. With respect to oil consumption, my Audi simply does better with heavier grades, and Delvac 1300 has been the best of them all.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Hi Garak, I never considered XD in the grade of 5W30. It is the 0W30 and 0W40 that are the sexy ones

. I for one currently use and have in the past XD 0W30 with great success in simple 4 cylinders and 6. I am curious why you use 5W30 over the 0W30...especially being in frigid Saskatchewan...is it cost?


That's exactly it. While a 0w-30 and 0w-40 are certainly the most attractive grades for the old F-150 year round (or even the Audi, especially the 0w-40), the cost is a little high. The truck has a carb, albeit a new one. I don't want to press my luck with fuel dilution. I could use 0w-30 or 0w-40, extend the OCIs, and get some UOAs. Or, I could just play it safe and run conventional at a reasonable OCI. The 5w-30 has sufficient ZDDP and should do the trick.

Now that the old F-150 doesn't leak like mad (from the oil pan gasket and everywhere else imaginable), it is a candidate for an oil pan heater for those extra frosty days.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 is Mobil's best API truck oil.


I'm going to have to start bugging my Imperial Oil distributor to see if they can get it in 5 gallon pails. Apparently, you have them in the States, but it seems they only have it in 4 x 4-quart boxes here. At least that's what they sold me last time, two or three years back.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Hi Garak, I never considered XD in the grade of 5W30. It is the 0W30 and 0W40 that are the sexy ones

. I for one currently use and have in the past XD 0W30 with great success in simple 4 cylinders and 6. I am curious why you use 5W30 over the 0W30...especially being in frigid Saskatchewan...is it cost?


That's exactly it. While a 0w-30 and 0w-40 are certainly the most attractive grades for the old F-150 year round (or even the Audi, especially the 0w-40), the cost is a little high.

I could use 0w-30 or 0w-40, extend the OCIs, and get some UOAs. Or, I could just play it safe and run conventional at a reasonable OCI. The 5w-30 has sufficient ZDDP and should do the trick.



When I bought my jug of XD 0W30 from my local Home Hardware it was just over $7 per litre (w/0 taxes)

Just curious as to the cost of the XD 5W30.

Have you done or ever seen a UOA of this oil?

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 is Mobil's best API truck oil.


I'm going to have to start bugging my Imperial Oil distributor to see if they can get it in 5 gallon pails. Apparently, you have them in the States, but it seems they only have it in 4 x 4-quart boxes here. At least that's what they sold me last time, two or three years back.


For your climate (talking year-round oil, or a non-summer oil) 0w40 outta be a better choice.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: Garak
For example, for whatever reason, Delvac 1 5w-40 has significantly higher TBN than does Delvac 1 0w-40. I don't know if their retention curves would be the same for the same engine. It is, however, noteworthy.


Delvac 1 5w40 is a CI-4 or CI-4+ oil, higher starting TBN

Delvac 1 ESP 0w40 (is there a non-ESP D1 0w40?) is a CJ-4 oil, lower starting TBN.

Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 is also CJ-4.

 

[m37charlie]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: Garak
For example, for whatever reason, Delvac 1 5w-40 has significantly higher TBN than does Delvac 1 0w-40. I don't know if their retention curves would be the same for the same engine. It is, however, noteworthy.


Delvac 1 5w40 is a CI-4 or CI-4+ oil, higher starting TBN

Delvac 1 ESP 0w40 (is there a non-ESP D1 0w40?) is a CJ-4 oil, lower starting TBN.

Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 is also CJ-4.


Delvac 1 ESP 0W40 = 7.7 CJ4
Delvac 1 ESP 5W40 =10.1 CJ4
Delvac 1 5W40 =12 CI4+, ACEA E4/E7, MB228.5
Delvac 1 LE 5W30 = 12.6 ACEA E6/E4/E7, MB228.5/51
Delvac 1 SHC 5W40 = 16 ACEA E4/E5, MB228.5

I had to order LE from Europe to use in our BMW X5 35d
SHC is available in the US from at least one marine distributor,
my Mobil jobber got 11 x 5gal for me with free shipping. It's not to be used in typical US mfg'd diesels - mainly just Euro diesels up to Euro 3 emissions. I'm trying an approx 28000mi OCI with it (30.6 qt sump, 6.4L motor). UOA to follow in about 10 months.

Charlie

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
When I bought my jug of XD 0W30 from my local Home Hardware it was just over $7 per litre (w/0 taxes)

Just curious as to the cost of the XD 5W30.

Have you done or ever seen a UOA of this oil?


Home Hardware advertises a lot of good oil choices on their website. I haven't been inside one in ages, however, to see what's available locally.

I'm not sure yet on the cost of the XD-3 5w-30, and I don't believe I've seen any UOAs on it. I haven't actually tried it myself. It just happens to be a useful winter weight oil (year round, really, for the truck) with sufficient ZDDP for the old 4.9L, which really may or may not be an issue. This way, I'm getting a decent oil at a sensible viscosity and sensible price with sufficient ZDDP, as opposed to blowing money on additives, or hunting down oddball PCMO grades with higher zinc for the summer and blowing money on and finding higher ZDDP synthetics for the winter, and trying to recoup my investment by going on extended OCIs with a carburetor.

Considering I want to run conventional, it will be much simpler and cheaper to stick with a 5w-30 that falls within specifications both for viscosity and API rating yet still has sufficient zinc in the event it is an issue. It'll also do the trick for the lawnmower and snowblower and will work for the Audi in winter, too, if need be.

Before the rebuild, it got Delvac 1300 in the summer and Valvoline MaxLife 5w-30 in the winter. I definitely liked that MaxLife, but after the rebuild, I don't feel the need for a high mileage oil, and getting one at a sensible price up here, particularly the Valvoline, can be a bit of a challenge. QS GB on rollback with Comp Cams additive is a cheaper combination than the MaxLife at "normal" prices, when I can even find it these days. My Walmarts no longer carry it, nor does CT.

Originally Posted By: BobFout
For your climate (talking year-round oil, or a non-summer oil) 0w40 outta be a better choice.


I would agree. When I bought the 5w-40, however, they had no 0w-40 in stock. So, that pretty much shot that idea to heck; it had been my original plan. The 5w-40 I picked up (with the higher TBN than the 0w-40, according to the Imperial Oil site), was the ESP with the CJ rating. I originally thought the same thing, that it was, perhaps, a CI or something or non-ESP, but that wasn't the case.

While I am in Saskatchewan, I'm not too terribly concerned about cold pumping, considering that the Audi, at least, spends most of its time indoors. That's not to say I'm going to run 15w-40 in the winter, either, but I won't fret too much between a 5w-40 and a 0w-40. That RP 0w-40 was rather nice in the cold, though.