Oil Analysis Help?

[stsjuice]

Hi all!
I'm new to the forum and it was suggested by the Cummins forum that i source some help form you guys. I just did my first oil analysis a while back on my 06 dodge Cummins. I was curious at the time how John Deere 0-w40 CJ-4 Syn would pan out in the Cummins. The 06-07 are very well known for sooting up oil in a hurry. So the CJ-4 Syn JD oil looked like a good match. The analysis came back good other then showing higher then normal fuel in oil levels 4% ??? I know that the 5.9 Cummins is prone to cylinder wash in cold low heat conditions when your extending idle time. And here in Manitoba ...its [censored] cold and my truck probably only spends 40% of its life right up to temperature. Has anyone else ran into this same problem in cold conditons... or is there likely a problem here?? The oil has about 197hrs 11500km. 2500km towing and the rest all light highway miles. All the run time was in the last 2 months in cold conditions (-10 -38) with no power adders installed on the truck. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[stsjuice]

Here it is!!

2006 Dodge Cummins 5.9 1714HRS
John Deere
0-40w Syn

197 HRS


Code:


IRON 34

CHROMIUM 2

LEAD 2

COPPER 13

TIN 2

ALUMINUM 8

NICKEL
SILVER
SILICON 6

BORON 183

SODIUM 4

MAGNESIUM 499

CALCIUM 1363

BARIUM
PHOS 1199

ZINC 1541

MOLY 226

TITANIUM
VANADIUM
POTASSIUM 11



FUEL% 4!

WATER% .05

COOLANT NO

SOOT% .2

BASE#mgKOH/g 7.8

VIS 100 12.4

 

[dnewton3]

Yup, you've got fuel dilution. And, it's effecting the vis (not terribly, but it's no longer a 40 grade, for sure; closer to a 30 grade). I suspect you're right; extended idling in really cold temps is causing your fuel dilution. I don't think 4% is terrible, but you're nearing the commonly accepted limit of 5%.

Also, your Fe is not as low as I would have expected, but certainly not worth panicing over. You've not towed enough to really say that is the cause, so probably the fuel is washing down the cyl walls and contributing to a bit more wear.

There are two possible causes of the fuel dilution:
1) environmental (as discussed) causing high fueling due to cold temps
2) fuel injector leak

The only reasonable way to know is continue your program and see if things settle down in spring. If the fuel drops due to less idling and warmer temps, you'll know that's the cause. If not, it's injection related.

I would say you're not in a bad position, but I would not push the OCI out past where it's at. You might even consider shorter ones if you fear it would become worse.

 

[stsjuice]

Thanks dnewton3!!
Your input was exactly what i was looking for. I'm thinking of taking a sample around 5000k on my new change and see how the fuel in oil levels look. We are getting some warmer weather so I'm really hoping that it was just the weather affecting the sample.

 

[Jim Allen]

stsjuice

You might also substitute block or pan heater time for idling... if possible. Or one of those fast idle products used by emergency vehicles, which will help. Or a radiator muff. Nothing looks horribly bad in your report but it's edging that way so some means of reducing that fuel dilution is probably worth it over the long term.

 

[stsjuice]

Thanks for the welcome Jim!!

Being totally new to oil sampling it really helps that guys like you can look over the analysis and form a opinion of what is going on. Other wise I'm lost in the dark...lol. Hopefully a skill i can pick up over time!
Thanks again!

 

[roadrunner1]

For starters you are using a very high quality motor oil, I use the plus 50 exclusively and UOA's have always been stellar.
My dad has an '06 dodge and when it was new he had a fuel dilution problem, much worse than 4%, they were measuring it in inches on the dipstick.

As stated above less than 5% is within tolerance, but if after all of the ideling you are getting up to temp 40% of the time as stated you shoudn't be at 4%, unless you had an extended idle event prior to pulling the sample. If it were me I would pull another sample now after a run on the highway to see where you are at. You very well could have an injector o-ring leaking.

On the other hand it could all be attributed to extensive ideling in yoour extreme cold weather, but another sample now will answer the question.

On my 6.0 powerstroke I had the very same (4%)fuel dilution at one sample, sampled again and sure enough it was still there, injector o-ring.

 

[stsjuice]

roadrunner1 I also love the JD plus 50 oil line up! I used it for years in all kinds of Heavy equipment,light trucks and even the old Lady's Honda.
On your dads 06 dodge was there any reasoning for his oil dilution issues... or what was actual problem?
Hopefully after this next sample it will help narrow my problem down to being a injector or just running in very cold conditions not up to temp. With free flowing exhaust and no CAT the truck has little to no back pressure to help generate heat when its so cold out. Its honestly hard to explain how cold these truck run in winter!

 

[roadrunner1]

I drove a Dodge for several years, I know all about how cold they run in the winter and not being able to keep the ice off of the windshield brrrrrr.

On his truck I can't remember the exact details but it was something wrong with the commonrail system and it was fixed under warrenty. We had a picture of me pulling him out of his driveway with my Ford to load him on the lowboy, I think he destroyed it, haha.

I'll ask him today about the details. I didn't want to come across as an alarmist, but at 4% fuel dilution you may or may not have a problem with your fuel system. The following UOA will tell you if you have a problem or not.

 

[The motor guy]

well the wear isn't all that bad. How many miles are on it? You show 1714hrs. Both on the oil and total mileage on engine.
Cold temp operation where the engine doesn't get warmed up such as short trips can cause fuel dilution. If all your trips are short try to take it out every once and a while and get the engine up to temp and keep it there. Run it down the freeway for 30 minutes or so. You have to load the engine down enough to get the oil temperature high enough to evaporate the fuel/moisture. Just poking around town at 35mph and 1200rpm isn't going to help much. Also keep in mind that it takes about another 5 minutes or so for the oil to get to temp after the coolant get up to temp.

 

[The motor guy]

I don't think you have a problem just needs to spend more time at operating temperature.

 

[stsjuice]

I have an appointment on Monday to find out if its a bad injector or just not enough time spent at operating temps. I'm really hope its just from cold running!

 

[stsjuice]

I had my appointment at Dodge. There not worried until Fuel in oil level is above 7%. Over 7% then its worth testing to see if there is a underlying problem..... Or so I'm told? So i got 2 more sample kits. I think ill take one a 5000km and if it checks out good then another at 10000k ???

 

[dnewton3]

7%? Wow - that's high. They need 7% to convince them there's an underlying problem? Did you get that statement in writing?

 

[stsjuice]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
7%? Wow - that's high. They need 7% to convince them there's an underlying problem? Did you get that statement in writing?



No i didn't get anything in writing. I do have proof of the email i forwarded to the dealer showing 4% fuel in oil, and the work order from the dealer with the complaint of fuel in oil showing that they didn't test???