changing honda factory fill

[swirlparanoid]

i know Honda says to leave the factory fill in until the maintenance minder tells you to because of the high moly etc, but my question is couldn't someone change the factory fill early then put in a high moly oil such as Honda 0w20( 0w20 uoa ) and have the same benefits as the factory fill?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I like your thought process. If early is 2-3K miles I would say do it.

 

[gfh77665]

Maybe, but would the replacement oil have the same level of moly? After a conversation with a Honda mechanic, I am convinced the FF for a full interval is a good thing. I went 6,500 miles on mine.

 

[Nick R]

Because honda uses a special break in oil, I would leave it in for the full OCI. Unlike Ford or others who use an off the shelf oil, like Motorcraft blend. (not that it's a bad oil, but not specially designed for break in)

 

[nfs480]

Leave it in for the full oil change, there's no downside. The point of the filter is to capture any metal particles from breakin, it can only help. Left mine in for ~10,000 when MM said 5%.

 

[zanzabar]

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...405#Post1721405

Leave it in there until the OLM says 20%. There's a big load of moly in the factory fill, even more than in the Honda oil you posted. I suppose it wouldn't hurt anything to change it, but you don't need to. (standard BITOG oil question answer #3b)

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: nfs480
Leave it in for the full oil change, there's no downside. The point of the filter is to capture any metal particles from breakin, it can only help. Left mine in for ~10,000 when MM said 5%.
The filter doesnt trap much stuff under 20 microns and thats still a pretty large particle given diametrical clearance on bearings are under 25 microns and as tight as 12 microns. Engines shead a LOT of metallic particulate the first 3000 miles. A LOT!

 

[raytseng]

My thoughts are there are 2 issues which Honda has combined togehter.
1) break in
2) oil life

The MM may go to 10k to 12.5k on a new car.

After say 6000 miles, you're already probably around 200hrs operating time on the car, and a couple million revolustions, I think the breakin period by this point is satisfied and the system isn't going to break in any more.
However, for issue 2, the oil is still good but this is independent from issue 1.

If you're going to put in the same conv. oil, no point in changing, the oil is still good, you gain nothing.

However if you're going to switch to something more exotic such as Mobil1 0w-20 Advanced Fuel Economy, you will get the benefits of that new oil sooner, which may offset the cost of the wasted still good oil.

I changed on my honda fit at 6000miles at 1year birthday. Used M1 AFE; MM was at 60%, I did notice the engine being smoother after the change; your butt dyno may vary, but I think benefits were had.

There's probably still a good halfquart-1quart of residue oil in the system as it's not a 2drain "flush", so it's still somewhat a gradual changeover...

 

[Eddie]

I think Honda engineers know best. Moly may not be the only extra additive, which may or may not show up on our inexpensive UOAs.

 

[moto94536]

I change my pilot at 8462 miles ( oil life 15% ).
I only put about 8000-9000 miles a year. So I use regular dino, or blend.

Just follow the MM. You will be fine. Make sure you monitor the oil level, and tire pressure.

 

[Scuderia]

The MM doesn't count miles, it counts volume of air that has passed through the MAF.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I believe it also tracks fuel use, and correlates oil life to that. I'm not sure that every Honda has a MAF sensor. Doesn't Honda typically prefer the speed density system?

 

[nfs480]

Originally Posted By: Scuderia
The MM doesn't count miles, it counts volume of air that has passed through the MAF.


Not true at all. The following is a quote from a Honda Chief Engineer Gary Flint who worked on the Honda Ridgeline from an interview with the Ridgeline Owners Club:

Quote:
ROC: What factors does the Oil Life Monitor use?

Gary Flint: The oil life monitoring system uses a complex series of calculations based on engine revolutions, time, and temperature to calculate service intervals. The associated other service requirements are estimated based on oil change intervals to organize the service requirements for tire rotation, transmission oil changes, etc. Under normal use, there is no need to service the vehicle more frequently than recommended by the smart maintenance system. If you are towing a heavy trailer, the system does not compensate for the transmission or rear differential service interval. You should consult the maintenance guide supplied with the vehicle and adjust the oil change frequency of the transmission and rear differential accordingly.


Link to interview:here

 

[electrolover]

you could change it and refill with more break in oil. like a RP or red line. maybe amsoil makes a good break in oil....

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
swirlparanoid - You would be wise to leave the FF in as determined by Honda. Special FF lubricants are those developed for the purpose in consort with Factory Engineers and are used by a number of engine/component Manufacturers. Some are specific to certain engine families within the Brand too

ARCOgraphite - You said this:
"Engines shead a LOT of metallic particulate the first 3000 miles. A LOT!"

Can you elaborate with factual statistical data, engine Makes, types and etc. Some on here may say your statement is wrong!

 

[deven]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
you could change it and refill with more break in oil. like a RP or red line. maybe amsoil makes a good break in oil....

+1. When I broke in my TL a couple of years ago, I changed out the factory fill at 500 miles and replaced it with Red Line 5w20. Lots of moly(RL claims it is 950ppm) and ZDDP as well. Honestly Red Line is getting way too expensive to use in street cars. I personally wouldn't use 0w20 during break in. I would stick with 5w20. It's usually recommended to use the highest viscosity oil a mfg. recommends during break in.

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
swirlparanoid - You would be wise to leave the FF in as determined by Honda. Special FF lubricants are those developed for the purpose in consort with Factory Engineers and are used by a number of engine/component Manufacturers. Some are specific to certain engine families within the Brand too

ARCOgraphite - You said this:
"Engines shead a LOT of metallic particulate the first 3000 miles. A LOT!"

Can you elaborate with factual statistical data, engine Makes, types and etc. Some on here may say your statement is wrong!


its pretty well common sense that rings and other things are going to shed metal during break-in. anyone who says hes wrong doesn't know how an engine works. if your curious build a new engine and run it 5k the disassemble and check the ring gap

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
electrolover - My comments were directed towrads another Poster

Thank you, and yes, I have had a little experience with engines...............

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
... Some on here may say your statement is wrong!
I dont know why I bother to respond to this. Whom amoung us might say this statement is wrong? Still, I suppose I should define " ... a lot!" as: ~3x a bedded engine wear rate (just a guess as I haven't performed the calculus). Proof? I Just look at UOA PC trending during breakin (0-20K miles) - and that doesnt count filter contents in which 1 or 2 pieces might = the mass of all sub 20 micron particulate in toto. Doug, if you have want to disprove my "common knowledge" statements - you bring the data. But, enough about oil; maybe you could shed light on another subject? Does water swirl anti-clockwise down the bath drain there in Oceania?

 

[CATERHAM]

Wear numbers are higher during the first 20,000 miles or so on a new engine whether the oil is changed more frequently or simply following the Manufacturer's recommended OCI.
If you have any evidence to the contrary, I and most BITOGer's would love to see it. Having said that, oil in NA is cheap and if it makes one feel better to change it out sooner then do so if you're going to stick to the same FF oil.

For the OP, the NA made Honda Brand 0W-20 contains over 1000 ppm of moly so there should be no concern in changing the oil early in that regard. See attached VOA:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1630856#Post1630856

I will add that the supplier for that oil was Idemitsu and Honda has recently changed the supplier for their US dealers to COF but the moly content should be the same.
BTW the Japanese OEM's love organic moly and all the Japanese 0W-20 oils contain a boat load of the stuff.