DIFFERENT OILS AND NO FILTER ON ENGINE
- Thread starter BOBISTHEOILGUY
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- May 27, 2002
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Bob, it's so very good to see you back. We have looked forward to this throughout your absence. Hope you continue to improve.
The no filter tests are not surprising except that I expected to see much higher wear. Engines didn't evolve from not having oil filters to having oil filters for no reason.
Welcome back, Bob, and thanks for the data.
Welcome back, Bob, and thanks for the data.
Welcome back Bob!
Bob,
Good to see you posting again. It may be a given to some, but to the new people, this was the Schaeffer's Blend. The thing that I like on this analysis is that it was run with out the full flow filter. At the present OCI and filter, the body would fall apart before the engine quits. So this oil and engine are a good fit. It sure dispels any rumors that anything more than a Super Tech filter is needed on your engine. I have said from day one, K&N, and all the 10-12 dollar filters are good to take your money.
Now with the bypass added after this OCI your results should be great. And remember, the old Wives Tale that that TP filter will remove the additives. And don't forget to add Rid-X to your oil in case the TP gets in the oil. Sorry, couldn't resist, I laugh at these tales.
Again Bob, good to see you back.
[ March 04, 2004, 01:03 AM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
Fascinating discussions here. While I haven't had time to read all of it, I wanted to point out that my neighbor is an engineer with Ford. He told me there was a research report that indicated after the first few oil changes on an new engine you really didn't need an oil filter anymore. Pretty much need it at first to get the remnant casing sand and machining particles.
I would guess that an oil filter is important if you have a lot of debris coming in the airstream. But look at automatic transmissions. They really don't have an airstream to introduce particulates and they seem to do well without a filter (provided you change the ATF regularly).
What about the VW Beatle? For years they had no oil filter, just a screen similar to that of an automatic tranny. But I bet they did not have the greatest air filtration either. Wonder how those engines held up?
Now that I think about it, my oil pressure sender probably is upstream of the filter, so I may get a nice warm fuzzy about the 45 psi on the gauge, but in reality, the filter may be holding back 5 psi and the mechanicals may only get 40 or perhaps even less by the time it gets to the top end. I did go to the longer big truck filter (FL299 type at 7 inch, vs FL1A type at 5.4 inch) and at least for Purolator, the big one flows about 7 gpm vs 4 gpm for the smaller. That must help.
Also, I always felt a blend of dino and synthetic was the best compromise, just maybe more than the standard blend.
I would guess that an oil filter is important if you have a lot of debris coming in the airstream. But look at automatic transmissions. They really don't have an airstream to introduce particulates and they seem to do well without a filter (provided you change the ATF regularly).
What about the VW Beatle? For years they had no oil filter, just a screen similar to that of an automatic tranny. But I bet they did not have the greatest air filtration either. Wonder how those engines held up?
Now that I think about it, my oil pressure sender probably is upstream of the filter, so I may get a nice warm fuzzy about the 45 psi on the gauge, but in reality, the filter may be holding back 5 psi and the mechanicals may only get 40 or perhaps even less by the time it gets to the top end. I did go to the longer big truck filter (FL299 type at 7 inch, vs FL1A type at 5.4 inch) and at least for Purolator, the big one flows about 7 gpm vs 4 gpm for the smaller. That must help.
Also, I always felt a blend of dino and synthetic was the best compromise, just maybe more than the standard blend.
MolaKule
Staff member
Interesting. Other than improving the air filtration to reduce silicon, it's good to go for some more miles. Replacing whatever oil has volatized will also reenergize the add pack.
Glad to see and hear you're doing so well.
Glad to see and hear you're doing so well.
Welcome back boss.
Looks like the removal of the restriction lowered your wear numbers especially when compared against the numbers with the M1 filter.
Do you think the lower viscosity oil also helped?
Can't wait to see the wear numbers with the by-pass installed.
Looks like the removal of the restriction lowered your wear numbers especially when compared against the numbers with the M1 filter.
Do you think the lower viscosity oil also helped?
Can't wait to see the wear numbers with the by-pass installed.
Hey Bob, heres a free interpretation for you and the BITOG troops here. I'm gonna split hairs cause thats what I get paid to do !
Comments:
I thought this was moly bond and not the blend ?
cu slight elevation over normal trend due to dirt ingression, check air filter seal and intake areas.
fe slight elevation due to air filter being loaded or leaking, possible secondary corrosion fe from sample resting and condensation effect.
cr normal
al slight increase due to top end wear from air filtration issue
pb ditto above
mo normal add level
p normal add level
zn normal add level
mg normal add level and doing a bit better than previous runs in retention, ring lube
ca normal add level
si elevated over trend, check AF and intake seal, more than likely loaded filter
coolant, fuel, h2o all negative, perfect
vis perfect vis for this oil, like new
sulfur elevated, mostly jax gas levels !
oxidation low
nitration normal note 3 % bump, AF induced
soot/solids clean
Conclusion: Correct AF/intake dirt leakage.Oil is fine for continued use if the Gulf Coast bypass can filter less than 10um particles! Bob did the sample sit for a while before being mailed to lab? Some of the Fe is condensation that attached to dirt particles and developed from sitting for a while.
FF oil filters are for insolubles filtering and primarily as insurance against a chunk of something being trapped, > 40um.
Engine is solid ! Will you use this oil for the next interval with the bypass.
A insolubles reading from BKlabs would be very interesting here.
At your service, Terry
Dyson Analysis
Comments:
I thought this was moly bond and not the blend ?
cu slight elevation over normal trend due to dirt ingression, check air filter seal and intake areas.
fe slight elevation due to air filter being loaded or leaking, possible secondary corrosion fe from sample resting and condensation effect.
cr normal
al slight increase due to top end wear from air filtration issue
pb ditto above
mo normal add level
p normal add level
zn normal add level
mg normal add level and doing a bit better than previous runs in retention, ring lube
ca normal add level
si elevated over trend, check AF and intake seal, more than likely loaded filter
coolant, fuel, h2o all negative, perfect
vis perfect vis for this oil, like new
sulfur elevated, mostly jax gas levels !
oxidation low
nitration normal note 3 % bump, AF induced
soot/solids clean
Conclusion: Correct AF/intake dirt leakage.Oil is fine for continued use if the Gulf Coast bypass can filter less than 10um particles! Bob did the sample sit for a while before being mailed to lab? Some of the Fe is condensation that attached to dirt particles and developed from sitting for a while.
FF oil filters are for insolubles filtering and primarily as insurance against a chunk of something being trapped, > 40um.
Engine is solid ! Will you use this oil for the next interval with the bypass.
A insolubles reading from BKlabs would be very interesting here.
At your service, Terry
Dyson Analysis
May I ask another beginners question ?
" Sulfer elevated , Mostly jax gas levels ! "
What is/are jax ?
" Sulfer elevated , Mostly jax gas levels ! "
What is/are jax ?
LOL... Thanks Terry....
I just wanted to say to all thank you very much for the support from all of you from my hospitalization.
Here is the last time I took an analysis on my ford and as you see, flow out performs filtration. hope that helps.
Here is the last time I took an analysis on my ford and as you see, flow out performs filtration. hope that helps.
Patman
Staff member
Good to see you back old pal!
It's because of your flow theory that I switched to the super high flow K&N oil filters a couple of years ago, and will never use a restrictive "low micron" filter on any of my vehicles.
patman, iam sure you know this but fleetguard and donaldson and baldwin (hastings) all had even a far better flow then k&n...what makes you to keep using this filter? i just wanted to learn about diff filters
hi bob and iam so glad to see you on here again..being in the med field myself it sure is wonderous how one recuperates from illnesses
Patman
Staff member
The K&N is readily available here, while the others are harder to find. Plus the K&N has shown me awesome oil analysis results, so why change?
Glad to see Bob back.
My own experience with Pure Ones, K&N and Amsoil filters have shown that the UOA are basically the same with other factors being about equal. Thus, I also went with the K&N consistently ( for flow) on one car and am considering it for the others I use the Amsoil on. ALthough, Amsoil does have pretty good flow also.
My own experience with Pure Ones, K&N and Amsoil filters have shown that the UOA are basically the same with other factors being about equal. Thus, I also went with the K&N consistently ( for flow) on one car and am considering it for the others I use the Amsoil on. ALthough, Amsoil does have pretty good flow also.
Bob,
I appreciate you effort, but this comparison is scientifically flawed and biased in many ways.
Using different filters, different oil weights and different additive packages only confuses the results so much, we can't compare any of them directly as being the better oil and filter combination.
I appreciate you effort, but this comparison is scientifically flawed and biased in many ways.
Using different filters, different oil weights and different additive packages only confuses the results so much, we can't compare any of them directly as being the better oil and filter combination.
Maybe I should reconsider my use of PureONE filters although i'm not sure if it's proven they are a 'low-flow' type. Any comments Bob?
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