Another Dumb Move By GM

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
Fdc, the 2011 Kia's are pretty nice, especially the 2011 optima and sorento. Kia is owned by Hyundai, good cars imo. By the way, the dealership I work at, has converted from Saturn to Kia in the last 6 month's.


Which explains your driving a Subaru?
Also, it isn't as though a Saturn dealership has much choice.


Subie you should soon start seeing all the Hyundais coming in for warranty repair. I bet the former Saturn mechanics aren't too happy with Hyundai warranty labor times.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: unDummy
Originally Posted By: pbm
Is the Cruze ECO (1.4T w/ stick shift) available yet?


You can't choose any options if you want the manual. All option packages add the automatic transmission.

I tried to price the manual transmission with the 'spare tire' option. Couldn't. Can of fix-a-flat in the trunk is good enough. Gm is a joke.

Why do they even offer it with a 1.8L with the same/similar MPG to the 1.4L?

And, the Eco comes with a 12.6 gallon tank. All others come with 15.6 gallon tank. You might gain some range with ECO, but you lose some from the tank shrinkage.

42mpg x 12.6 gallons = 529 miles Eco
36mpg x 15.6 gallons = 562 miles not so Eco

I just don't get it.





Well at least it's not the old GM. GM in the past use to let you order just about any option you wanted piece by piece lol. While I personally think you should be able to order a compact spare with the manual Eco or any other option package you want, there's always something about any car and its options that you're not going to like. The Cruze has got a lot of things right. I think they should've just used a 13 gal tank on all models as that's plenty big enough for an econo car IMO.

 

[sciphi]

I test-drove a 1.4T automatic Cruze today. I like that car. It's high on my list when the Buick needs replacing someday. It's fairly roomy from the driver's seat, rides well, and is secure in its handling. A perfect "vanilla" car.

The feature I enjoyed the most was popping the hood, and finding an un-cluttered engine bay without a cheesy plastic engine cover!!! The turbo was right in front in all its glory, and there was room to stick arms down in front and in back of the engine. This Ecotec variant uses a cartridge filter on the right side of the block, BTW. The AT is similarly tiny.

Now when we get a tune to get 160 hp/170 ft/lbs out of that 1.4, I'll be in vanilla heaven.

 

[subiedriver]

I'm driving a Subaru because it was by far the best used car for me, in the price range I was looking at. I bought it from a private owner, working at the dealership is irrelavent. Living in Colorado, with an 88 mile round trip commute, I needed an awd car that gets good mpg. I got a smokin' deal on my '04 Legacy 5 speed that delivers 30+ mpg and has yet to meet a snowstorm it couldn't conquer. In the price range I was looking at, 10 grand max, the Subie was about the only good choice. Mine is a 4 door also, not the wagon, its a stylish car. I haven't had a single major component failure on this car, 112,000 miles and counting.

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Subie you should soon start seeing all the Hyundais coming in for warranty repair. I bet the former Saturn mechanics aren't too happy with Hyundai warranty labor times.

How many late model Hyundais have YOU worked on? I bet none. My 08 Kia Spectra was at dealer once--replaced a BCM under warranty (headlights stayed on, after the car was shut down, if lightstalk had been left in the on position, there was a TSB for that). Dealer was happy to work on it, got me in and out and washed my car too.
Other than that I just change oil every 6 months.

For someone claiming to be impartial you seem to dis every car other than GM. And now you engage in PERSONAL attacks on the members and criticize without any basis whatsoever their car choices. Save you breath for when you need to fix your rust bucket. How about that?

OP--Cruze is probably a nice car. I can see why comparison was done with 2010 models (before 2011 were released). GM should have waited. Saying that Cruze had been out overseas for 3 years does not mean much. Do we know that European Civic or Elantra are the same as US counterparts? Probably not, same with Cruze.

 

[mechanicx]

Every shop gets plenty of Hyundais and Kias and knows about the low book times and high parts costs. You post is just ad hominem and baseless personal attacks. News flash this was a largely GM bashing thread and it's not like you don't defend your point view.

 

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
So this person can look over into the next bay and know exactly why that car is there including it's full service history? Or understand the techs answer if the tech doesn't have time to explain it which they most likely do not?

His GM rant reflects the superficial view that he gets of the service department.

So your saying that Service Techs don't have time to talk to people or answer questions when asked by the guy with the buffer in the bay next door? Or that it's so much rocket-science involved that he wouldn't understand? I have NEVER been to ANY dealer or Service Dept, where Gomer Didn't stop what he was doing and yell over to Goober about how cold it got last night, or how sexy Aunt Bea looked last night in her MooMoo, no matter how many cars were waiting to be worked on. Much less not be able to understand it. If what your telling me is true, than I would again make my point, as if the tech is So busy he can't talk, than that must mean there are a whole bunch of GM cars in for service, in fact, so many that the tech cant fix em fast enough to even say a word... I think a person can be very observant in what he sees and asks, especially if he's trying to get a foot in the door for a service position, or even just out of plain ole' curiosity. People (most) are not that stupid, Cars or not that technical, and Tech's are not that busy.

I think your view of the man with the buffer, and all us ole' non-tech folks are alittle superficial..

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Originally Posted By: brianl703
So this person can look over into the next bay and know exactly why that car is there including it's full service history? Or understand the techs answer if the tech doesn't have time to explain it which they most likely do not?

His GM rant reflects the superficial view that he gets of the service department.

So your saying that Service Techs don't have time to talk to people or answer questions when asked by the guy with the buffer in the bay next door? Or that it's so much rocket-science involved that he wouldn't understand? I have NEVER been to ANY dealer or Service Dept, where Gomer Didn't stop what he was doing and yell over to Goober about how cold it got last night, or how sexy Aunt Bea looked last night in her MooMoo, no matter how many cars were waiting to be worked on. Much less not be able to understand it. If what your telling me is true, than I would again make my point, as if the tech is So busy he can't talk, than that must mean there are a whole bunch of GM cars in for service, in fact, so many that the tech cant fix em fast enough to even say a word... I think a person can be very observant in what he sees and asks, especially if he's trying to get a foot in the door for a service position, or even just out of plain ole' curiosity. People (most) are not that stupid, Cars or not that technical, and Tech's are not that busy.

I think your view of the man with the buffer, and all us ole' non-tech folks are alittle superficial..


Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's normal for people in most work environments to joke around. I know we do at work. We'd probably kill ourselves if we didn't. Some of the characters that you see in retail, let me tell you....

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Cars or not that technical


Modern cars are much more complex than they used to be. 20 years ago, the typical car had one or two computers, which controlled the engine and the transmission. 20 years before that they had no computers. A modern car can have as many as 10-20 computers, which are necessary to control the features that a modern car has.

This complexity increases the amount of knowledge and skill required to properly diagnose them. A good understanding of computers and electronics is very helpful, if not essential.

It ain't just "plug in the scantool and replace what it tells you to replace".

 

[7speter]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Cars or not that technical


It ain't just "plug in the scantool and replace what it tells you to replace".



I don't think its ever been like it.

 

[Propflux01]

Cars are not that technical in the respect that they cannot be learned on as to how they work and how they can be repaired.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Cars are not that technical in the respect that they cannot be learned on as to how they work and how they can be repaired.

True, but lets take one little aspect of tunning lets say IAC counts(GM Style). Most people don't understand it or even care about. Important for how the car idles and how it runs when coasting down. For instance IAC count at idle for my WS6 stock runs right about 30 (10 to 40 optimal). When I did the cam it it went up to 60. So it would idle less than ideal. I had to learn or understand the relationship of throttle blade location VS TPS voltage VS IAC counts it took about two days to get the car down to where it is now at 35 counts.

I think you minimize it a bit. You assume everyone who has a car can be technical.
I used to fix Submarines for a living, now I am the Submarine Mast and Antenna Techinal manager at Bangor, fixing test procedures and writing procedures for fixing those part. It is similar to working on car.
Fixing a car and truley understanding how it works are two different things.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Cars are not that technical in the respect that they cannot be learned on as to how they work and how they can be repaired.


There's a little truth to that and and a lot of myth. If you are talking repairing mechanical devices there's a lot of skill and experience and some knowledge or apptitude involved and where the myth that it's not technical or that any "goober" can do it is you can repair a mechanical device at least so so without understanding how it works or doing it precisely. I would say though that of all the mechanical skills like plumbing, carpentry etc auto mechanics is the highest. But to do good, proper repairs in modern vehicles in tight spaces and quickly it takes a lot of skill, experience and knowledge.

And if you are talking about diagnosing it gets even more technical. You really need to understand how the systems work. Without technical skills something as common as a no start or misfire will have the mechanic throwing parts at the engine. You have to have a lot of knowledge about tools and equipment, and keep on top of TSB and service information. The average vehicle service manual is well over 1000 pages and there are 1000's of pages worth of general knowledge a person needs. It's like being as jack of all trades. I consider auto mechanics the most skilled of trades.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Cars are not that technical in the respect that they cannot be learned on as to how they work and how they can be repaired.


There's a little truth to that and and a lot of myth. If you are talking repairing mechanical devices there's a lot of skill and experience and some knowledge or apptitude involved and where the myth that it's not technical or that any "goober" can do it is you can repair a mechanical device at least so so without understanding how it works or doing it precisely. I would say though that of all the mechanical skills like plumbing, carpentry etc auto mechanics is the highest. But to do good, proper repairs in modern vehicles in tight spaces and quickly it takes a lot of skill, experience and knowledge.

And if you are talking about diagnosing it gets even more technical. You really need to understand how the systems work. Without technical skills something as common as a no start or misfire will have the mechanic throwing parts at the engine. You have to have a lot of knowledge about tools and equipment, and keep on top of TSB and service information. The average vehicle service manual is well over 1000 pages and there are 1000's of pages worth of general knowledge a person needs. It's like being as jack of all trades. I consider auto mechanics the most skilled of trades.



Lot of truth in that. My profession was entered by way of a 4 year university program and experience, yet I find the 2 year auto technician course (taken out of interest) I study by distance to be a lot more complex than I thought it would be; and that's just the educational component - the ASE guys have something like that plus a couple years experience on what must be a maze of stuff when you think of the variety out there today and the changes over the last 20 years.

Maybe that's part of why I've always found a good mechanic to be a hard thing to come by.

-Spyder

 

[fdcg27]

I was just picking at you a little.
I think a Subie is a good choice if you have a need for AWD.
Check my sig!

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike

Fixing a car and truley understanding how it works are two different things.


I'm of the opinion that you cannot really understand how to fix something unless you understand how it works.

At one of my jobs we had guys who would fix a server that wasn't working in the middle of the night. The next morning, they had it working, but they also had a pile of parts (power supply, motherboard, memory, CPU, etc.) they had removed and replaced in their haphazard approach to fixing the problem. Do you think all of that stuff was really bad? Do you think they learned anything by doing it the way they did? No, it wasn't all bad, and no, they didn't learn anything.

They couldn't take a systematic approach to troubleshooting because they didn't understand how the system worked and what all of those parts actually did and how their failures would affect the rest of the system.

 

[JDD]

Actually, I think GM is on the right track with this car. For pretty much ever, GM has treated small cars as an afterthought and a non-profit nuisance and put their focus on the pickup/SUV high profit market. It has been embarassing to have the asian car makers continually kicking out far superior small cars to GM (and Ford and Chrysler). To see GM and Ford (and even Chrysler to an extent) actually seem to finally care about putting out a decent small car product is promising. This segment will become more and more important as long as gas is as expensive as it is and looks to be in the future. I'm a big believer that smaller displacement turbo'd engines are the future.

 

[Santo Fontana]

the video says its private and wont play for me.

 

[Cutehumor]

GM should be focusing on building fuel efficient small cars. with unstable gas prices, I would be in the market for a fuel efficient car in the future. A hybrid cruz with 60 mpg would be nice.

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: unDummy
Originally Posted By: pbm
Is the Cruze ECO (1.4T w/ stick shift) available yet?


You can't choose any options if you want the manual. All option packages add the automatic transmission.

I tried to price the manual transmission with the 'spare tire' option. Couldn't. Can of fix-a-flat in the trunk is good enough. Gm is a joke.

Why do they even offer it with a 1.8L with the same/similar MPG to the 1.4L?

And, the Eco comes with a 12.6 gallon tank. All others come with 15.6 gallon tank. You might gain some range with ECO, but you lose some from the tank shrinkage.

42mpg x 12.6 gallons = 529 miles Eco
36mpg x 15.6 gallons = 562 miles not so Eco

I just don't get it.





Well at least it's not the old GM. GM in the past use to let you order just about any option you wanted piece by piece lol. While I personally think you should be able to order a compact spare with the manual Eco or any other option package you want, there's always something about any car and its options that you're not going to like. The Cruze has got a lot of things right. I think they should've just used a 13 gal tank on all models as that's plenty big enough for an econo car IMO.


true..