Michigan bill to allow CC in bars, churches

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Confused, the article asks "“Why do you need to give your constitutional right away when you go to some places?”

Isn't the answer, because some places are private and subject to the rules of the property owners?
 
I understand ya SG but what other constitutional rights should private places and property owners have the right to take from you?

I'm not pick'n on ya just playing the other side of the argument.
 
I know that, now, private property rights still take precedent. Under this bill I assume they still would, only it would allow private owners of bars, churches and so forth to allow guns on the property.

Not sure how it would effect schools and other municipal(public) buildings.
 
This has a little more info...very little....

http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/01/sen_mike_green_ready_for_debat.html

But it does sound like this bill would basically trump private property rights in this instance. Allowing carry anywhere, anytime...irrespective of the owners consent or refusal.

This will NEVER pass here in Michigan...He reached WAY too far.

I do like the second bill he proposed to get rid of the County boards and turn the licensing over to the state. Some counties are much harder to get licensed in.
 
Originally Posted By: cven
I understand ya SG but what other constitutional rights should private places and property owners have the right to take from you?

I'm not pick'n on ya just playing the other side of the argument.



No one's taking anything from anyone. It is a terms of agreement for entering the property, a contract if you will.

The BITOG terms of use employs this or is Helen stripping you of your constitutional right to free speech by having a RSP prohibition. Bear in mind you agreed to it.....

A overreach indeed LS....
 
Yeah, he reached too far. I think a church shouldn't be an unlawful place to carry, but if that congregation doesn't want you to bring your heater they ought to be able to say no. You got people walking up into a church and just blasting away. I'd feel more comfortable if they let people carry. That way, you've got a gun in the hand of a law-abiding, background checked, trained, and responsible citizen in case anything wild happens.
 
Well, if an owner doesn't consent or approve, then owner can just kick you off the property. So, the law gives the firearm carrier a choice and the property owner a choice.

If the local Church said not to carry there, the pews would be empty. That is something for the church and its parishioners to worry about.

And, if the firearm is concealed, I ain't telling and definitely not asking permission.
 
What is everyone's view of a gun owner's liability if his gun drops out of his backpack, pocket or holster and shoots someone, as has happened twice very recently?
Here is one of those instances - Elderly woman shot by dropped firearm

Should he be mandated to carry insurance for his potential liability, as a condition of the CCW? If not, why would a gun owner be allowed to put his own safety above the safety of the general, non-carrying public?
 
Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition..?

More likely: They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks.
 
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What is everyone's view of a gun owner's liability if his gun drops out of his backpack, pocket or holster and shoots someone, as has happened twice very recently?


Why would there be a view? lol. Everyone should be held responsible for their actions. With rights come responsibilities.

Any reasonable court would find the owner 100% responsible for the injuries incurred in an accidental discharge and award accordingly. Insurance seems to be a good idea for the prudent.
 
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Originally Posted By: simple_gifts

Any reasonable court would find the owner 100% responsible for the injuries incurred in an accidental discharge and award accordingly. Insurance seems to be a good idea for the prudent.


I seriously doubt that most gun owners would have the personal resources to pay for, for example, lifetime medical bills and support for someone they accidentally injured critically. So they file bankruptcy and go on about their lives, with protection above and beyond what everyone else needs, while the family surrounding the victim is ruined also. Sounds like a good, socially responsible plan to me....
 
Lots of good point here gents. I just have trouble with others saying where and when someone may exercise there rights, but I realize you can't yell fire in a crowded theater.

And yes, one needs to be held responsible for their actions in everything they do, be it a gun or anything else that causes others harm.
 
I have mandatory car insurance just in case I run you over or play bumper cars with your vehicle.

My doctor and dentist have malpractice insurance in case they [censored] me off.

Some homeowners are covered by homeowners insurance if the accident occurs at home. It is important for you to check your policy if you keep firearms at home.

I do support mandatory carry, hunting, and weapon insurance, or an ammo/weapon tax that goes into a fund for injuries caused by accidental discharges.

The liability insurance isn't too expensive. NRA offers it to their members. You'll have to contact your insurance company to see if they have something equivalent.
 
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Sounds like a good, socially responsible plan to me....

18.gif

You list an overwhelming 2 instances of this happening. Yeah, society is going to come to an end.
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One was a thug kid in a high school already in violation of the law.

How about bicycle insurance? Baseball insurance? Bathtub insurance? All of these things injure far more people than CCW holders dropping their guns.

Are all of these people "socially irresponsible" for not insuring their "dangerous weapons"?
crazy.gif
 
Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Guns in Churches....I wonder what Jesus would say?


Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition..?




lol...
 
I don't get it. There are CCW permitting states that do NOT allow you to carry concealed in church?

I honestly don't give it any thought to carry in church. I do quite often as well as several others that attend.
 
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