So I just got a certified used 328i with about 45k on it and they say the ATF and diff is a lifetime fill? Is that something that most BMW owners go by? Its hard to find accurate info. I did see some pics of people changing the ATF and there is a large warning sticker on the pan that says not to change because it is a lifetime fill!
08 bmw 328i Lifetime fill ATF and diff??
- Thread starter ryland
- Start date
- Status
I had some questions about that too. Lexus started doing this as well. Not sure why it needs a warning sticker. Maybe it's being pushed because people use the flush machines and break stuff?
Originally Posted By: unDummy
There are no lifetime fluids.
You should change them all.
Its an enviro-eco benefit. Less oil used. They forget that replacing a vehicle isn't too good for the environment too.
I seriously doubt even the manufacturers would try to tout the environmental benefits of "lifetime fluids". I think there are 2 motivating factors:
1. selling a "maintenance free vehicle", and
2. dealer-included service with the sale of new vehicles. If the dealer's paying for it, all of a sudden it's not needed. Until, of course, it's completely worn out and not under warranty any more.
From an environmental standpoint, that's one of the big reasons I maintain my car the way I do; I have to waste stuff. Wasting driveline components unnecessarily is pretty darned wasteful.
To the OP, I posted some pictures of my own "lifetime fluids" pulled from my driveline, at around 90K (I never would let the tranny go more than 30K). Let's just say it wasn't pretty.
Interestingly, a Volvo tech basically said this was to "reduce the perception that these vehicles required a lot of maintenance", or something to that effect. He then mentioned they reached a failure point between 100-150K, so they just changed the fluid then.
There are no lifetime fluids.
You should change them all.
Its an enviro-eco benefit. Less oil used. They forget that replacing a vehicle isn't too good for the environment too.
I seriously doubt even the manufacturers would try to tout the environmental benefits of "lifetime fluids". I think there are 2 motivating factors:
1. selling a "maintenance free vehicle", and
2. dealer-included service with the sale of new vehicles. If the dealer's paying for it, all of a sudden it's not needed. Until, of course, it's completely worn out and not under warranty any more.
From an environmental standpoint, that's one of the big reasons I maintain my car the way I do; I have to waste stuff. Wasting driveline components unnecessarily is pretty darned wasteful.
To the OP, I posted some pictures of my own "lifetime fluids" pulled from my driveline, at around 90K (I never would let the tranny go more than 30K). Let's just say it wasn't pretty.
Interestingly, a Volvo tech basically said this was to "reduce the perception that these vehicles required a lot of maintenance", or something to that effect. He then mentioned they reached a failure point between 100-150K, so they just changed the fluid then.
I tend to agree with unDUMMY, but it seems that "lifetime" trans fluids are with us on several cars. Same on my Volvo...I have yet to find a trans dipstick,and could not find the BOT341 fluid outside the dealership. With a lot of towing it does say to change at 50k.
Whose lifetime are these fluids ? Lifetime of warranty ? If the transmission failed after warranty expired, then it is the owners who will pay for repair/rebuilt ...
I changed ATF and diff fluid of my '00 E430 at 80k miles which has lifetime fluids too.
I changed ATF and diff fluid of my '00 E430 at 80k miles which has lifetime fluids too.
Most people reporting that they have changed "lifetime" fluids are glad they did, as there really is no such thing.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Whose lifetime are these fluids ? Lifetime of warranty ? If the transmission failed after warranty expired, then it is the owners who will pay for repair/rebuilt ...
I changed ATF and diff fluid of my '00 E430 at 80k miles which has lifetime fluids too.
And what happened? This just seems odd to me. I've never had a german car before only japanese. I would change my ATF about every 25k on my last honda but it had a small filter like an old school fuel filter. This when I have seen pics has a large flat filter the size of a small pizza box. Its also very thick media inside of that filter. Supposedly the transmission is assembled in some kind of clean room so there is zero contaminants. True I'm sure the fluid breaks down and is contaminated by clutch debris and part wear in but.....I dont knwo what to think about it. Also I have read that on the 08-presant BMW has made it more difficult to accesss the fill hole by plaving the mounting brackets around it. That and the large warning sticker weird me out.
Whose lifetime are these fluids ? Lifetime of warranty ? If the transmission failed after warranty expired, then it is the owners who will pay for repair/rebuilt ...
I changed ATF and diff fluid of my '00 E430 at 80k miles which has lifetime fluids too.
And what happened? This just seems odd to me. I've never had a german car before only japanese. I would change my ATF about every 25k on my last honda but it had a small filter like an old school fuel filter. This when I have seen pics has a large flat filter the size of a small pizza box. Its also very thick media inside of that filter. Supposedly the transmission is assembled in some kind of clean room so there is zero contaminants. True I'm sure the fluid breaks down and is contaminated by clutch debris and part wear in but.....I dont knwo what to think about it. Also I have read that on the 08-presant BMW has made it more difficult to accesss the fill hole by plaving the mounting brackets around it. That and the large warning sticker weird me out.
You definitely want to change it. I service E39s within the family and they were all "lifetime fill" too. All fluids have been changed several times - there's certainly no downside.
The car is fairly new to you - research and figure out what to change and how to do it. Particularly the first time you'll want to do a complete pan drop and change the AT filter as well. A lot of BMW models seem to translate from German into the parts system as a "screen" and not a "filter". This leads dealer staff to believe that it's a coarse screen that never needs servicing. This is also wrong.
After doing a complete pan drop, filter replacement, cooler line flush and refill with Amsoil ATF his E39 540iA shifts better than it did since it was new in 2002. He paid to have the dealer "change the ATF" at 30k mi intervals until we finally did it ourselves approaching 100k. They simply did a pan drain/refill (changes 1/3 of the fluid), never changed the filter (which they were asked to do) and charged him a bundle.
I'm not sure if the improvement is all from 100% fresh fluid, the change of fluid (from genuine Esso LT71141 to Amsoil ATF) or from changing the filter. It was acting goofy almost all of its life until that point...
The car is fairly new to you - research and figure out what to change and how to do it. Particularly the first time you'll want to do a complete pan drop and change the AT filter as well. A lot of BMW models seem to translate from German into the parts system as a "screen" and not a "filter". This leads dealer staff to believe that it's a coarse screen that never needs servicing. This is also wrong.
After doing a complete pan drop, filter replacement, cooler line flush and refill with Amsoil ATF his E39 540iA shifts better than it did since it was new in 2002. He paid to have the dealer "change the ATF" at 30k mi intervals until we finally did it ourselves approaching 100k. They simply did a pan drain/refill (changes 1/3 of the fluid), never changed the filter (which they were asked to do) and charged him a bundle.
I'm not sure if the improvement is all from 100% fresh fluid, the change of fluid (from genuine Esso LT71141 to Amsoil ATF) or from changing the filter. It was acting goofy almost all of its life until that point...
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
After doing a complete pan drop, filter replacement, cooler line flush and refill with Amsoil ATF his E39 540iA shifts better than it did since it was new in 2002. He paid to have the dealer "change the ATF" at 30k mi intervals until we finally did it ourselves approaching 100k. They simply did a pan drain/refill (changes 1/3 of the fluid), never changed the filter (which they were asked to do) and charged him a bundle.
Sorry guys, I think I got interrupted while editing and what I said here makes no sense. I'm referring to my dad's 2002 540iA which he asked the dealer to "change to ATF and filter" on every 50,000km. They just did a drain/refill, not pan drop or filter change. The transmission was doing all kinds of weird and ungraceful things since it was almost new. Clunky downshifts just as stopping, lurching and hesitation, when in steptronic mode shifting around 3rd and 4th at higher revs (but only maintaining speed) on the highway it would do a "double thump" shift. Our full flush, drop, filter change made them ALL go away. Thanks for nothing, dealer. Was it the filter? Fluid? Flush? Proper level set? Doesn't matter, really, all fixed now.
After doing a complete pan drop, filter replacement, cooler line flush and refill with Amsoil ATF his E39 540iA shifts better than it did since it was new in 2002. He paid to have the dealer "change the ATF" at 30k mi intervals until we finally did it ourselves approaching 100k. They simply did a pan drain/refill (changes 1/3 of the fluid), never changed the filter (which they were asked to do) and charged him a bundle.
Sorry guys, I think I got interrupted while editing and what I said here makes no sense. I'm referring to my dad's 2002 540iA which he asked the dealer to "change to ATF and filter" on every 50,000km. They just did a drain/refill, not pan drop or filter change. The transmission was doing all kinds of weird and ungraceful things since it was almost new. Clunky downshifts just as stopping, lurching and hesitation, when in steptronic mode shifting around 3rd and 4th at higher revs (but only maintaining speed) on the highway it would do a "double thump" shift. Our full flush, drop, filter change made them ALL go away. Thanks for nothing, dealer. Was it the filter? Fluid? Flush? Proper level set? Doesn't matter, really, all fixed now.
Last edited:
So I looked into what it would take to do a pan drop and ATF change and it seems complicated. The filter I found online is roughly $50 the pan gasket is another $50. The fluid is about $30 a liter and it takes 5. The pan has a drain hole so thats easy but here is the hard part. The temp of the fluid has to be a certain temp when you fill it then you have to turn on the car while still up on jacks and while the fill hole is still open and start the car and shift through the gears. Then get out and continue pumping in the fluid. That seems a heck of a lot more complicated than my Hyundai that I just did the ATF on yesterday! I may just find out how much the daler charges but then who knows if they will really change it!
Additional question: any problems useing a normal 75w90 gear oil in the diffs on these BMW's or must it be the stuff you can only buy from the dealer that they have to pump out of a drum?
Additional question: any problems useing a normal 75w90 gear oil in the diffs on these BMW's or must it be the stuff you can only buy from the dealer that they have to pump out of a drum?
Originally Posted By: ryland
I may just find out how much the daler charges but then who knows if they will really change it!
Put some marker paint on the fill plug. If they do the work, the "seal" will be broken.
Originally Posted By: ryland
Additional question: any problems useing a normal 75w90 gear oil in the diffs on these BMW's or must it be the stuff you can only buy from the dealer that they have to pump out of a drum?
See what the various gear lube blenders say. Use their recommended product. This way, if there is a lubricant-related failure, there is at least a chance you may have some recourse.
I may just find out how much the daler charges but then who knows if they will really change it!
Put some marker paint on the fill plug. If they do the work, the "seal" will be broken.
Originally Posted By: ryland
Additional question: any problems useing a normal 75w90 gear oil in the diffs on these BMW's or must it be the stuff you can only buy from the dealer that they have to pump out of a drum?
See what the various gear lube blenders say. Use their recommended product. This way, if there is a lubricant-related failure, there is at least a chance you may have some recourse.
You should read Bimmer magazine. THere many stories of BMW owners following the new maintenance schedule and regretting it with buying new transmissions, etc. It's suggested to follow the old maintenance schedule if you plan on owning the car after the warranty ends.
Originally Posted By: ryland
So I looked into what it would take to do a pan drop and ATF change and it seems complicated. The filter I found online is roughly $50 the pan gasket is another $50. The fluid is about $30 a liter and it takes 5. The pan has a drain hole so thats easy but here is the hard part. The temp of the fluid has to be a certain temp when you fill it then you have to turn on the car while still up on jacks and while the fill hole is still open and start the car and shift through the gears. Then get out and continue pumping in the fluid. That seems a heck of a lot more complicated than my Hyundai that I just did the ATF on yesterday! I may just find out how much the daler charges but then who knows if they will really change it!
Additional question: any problems useing a normal 75w90 gear oil in the diffs on these BMW's or must it be the stuff you can only buy from the dealer that they have to pump out of a drum?
It`s sounds nasty, but I`ve done it a couple of times and lived. You should be able to confirm the fluid spec and you may find exactly the same thing or something compatible for less than $30 per quart. If it`s LT71141 for instance there are lots of options.
IMO, now is the time you really want to do a pan drop to get breakin material out of the filter. Don`t exceed your comfort level, of course.
In general 75W90 is fine. The most common exceptions I`ve heard is if you have a limited slip unit. Some folks have found that nothing but the factory-spec stuff works just right for the LSD unit.
So I looked into what it would take to do a pan drop and ATF change and it seems complicated. The filter I found online is roughly $50 the pan gasket is another $50. The fluid is about $30 a liter and it takes 5. The pan has a drain hole so thats easy but here is the hard part. The temp of the fluid has to be a certain temp when you fill it then you have to turn on the car while still up on jacks and while the fill hole is still open and start the car and shift through the gears. Then get out and continue pumping in the fluid. That seems a heck of a lot more complicated than my Hyundai that I just did the ATF on yesterday! I may just find out how much the daler charges but then who knows if they will really change it!
Additional question: any problems useing a normal 75w90 gear oil in the diffs on these BMW's or must it be the stuff you can only buy from the dealer that they have to pump out of a drum?
It`s sounds nasty, but I`ve done it a couple of times and lived. You should be able to confirm the fluid spec and you may find exactly the same thing or something compatible for less than $30 per quart. If it`s LT71141 for instance there are lots of options.
IMO, now is the time you really want to do a pan drop to get breakin material out of the filter. Don`t exceed your comfort level, of course.
In general 75W90 is fine. The most common exceptions I`ve heard is if you have a limited slip unit. Some folks have found that nothing but the factory-spec stuff works just right for the LSD unit.
Redline lists that D4 would be a compatible ATF has anyone used this? Or should I just stick to OEM? It seems like BMw owners like redline but for some reason I always thought of them as a gimmic oil kind of like royal purple.
Originally Posted By: ryland
Redline lists that D4 would be a compatible ATF has anyone used this? Or should I just stick to OEM? It seems like BMw owners like redline but for some reason I always thought of them as a gimmic oil kind of like royal purple.
What spec do you require? Is it LT71141 or one of the others? If LT71141, I've been extremely pleased with Amsoil ATF in a 2002 540 (with A5S 440Z A/T). On the "value" side of the equation, I've read a lot of good things from people using Valvoline Maxlife in LT71141 applications and you can't beat the price.
On the other hand, if you're still under warranty you may want to tread more lightly and get the exact correct fluid by the book. Depending on what it is you may be able to source it from somewhere other than the dealer for significant savings and still be 100% legit as far as warranty is concerned.
Redline lists that D4 would be a compatible ATF has anyone used this? Or should I just stick to OEM? It seems like BMw owners like redline but for some reason I always thought of them as a gimmic oil kind of like royal purple.
What spec do you require? Is it LT71141 or one of the others? If LT71141, I've been extremely pleased with Amsoil ATF in a 2002 540 (with A5S 440Z A/T). On the "value" side of the equation, I've read a lot of good things from people using Valvoline Maxlife in LT71141 applications and you can't beat the price.
On the other hand, if you're still under warranty you may want to tread more lightly and get the exact correct fluid by the book. Depending on what it is you may be able to source it from somewhere other than the dealer for significant savings and still be 100% legit as far as warranty is concerned.
yeah I'm under warranty till 100k so your right I should probably use approved stuff. I did see that pentosin does make a lower cost ATF that is approved. Maybe thats the way to go.
BTW I re-read my post and I dont want people thinking that I'm bad mouthing redline. I have absolutly no basis for what I have always thought about them. I've never even used any of their products its just thats what I have always thought. Same goes for royal purple. I think it comes from the people I see buying those products at the auto parts store. They are mostly punk kids with rice rockets that have huge ugly aftermarket spoilers on the roof. An interisting parallel is that I've always liked Remy Martin congac. When I moved to the south I saw that they had huge displays of it in the liquor stores here. One day I piced up a bottle and stood in line. I put the bottle back when I saw a homeless man, and a few barely 21 yearolds that were dressed as if they were trying to look like white rappers that also had Remy Martin. But I suppose thats a me problem not the product.
BTW I re-read my post and I dont want people thinking that I'm bad mouthing redline. I have absolutly no basis for what I have always thought about them. I've never even used any of their products its just thats what I have always thought. Same goes for royal purple. I think it comes from the people I see buying those products at the auto parts store. They are mostly punk kids with rice rockets that have huge ugly aftermarket spoilers on the roof. An interisting parallel is that I've always liked Remy Martin congac. When I moved to the south I saw that they had huge displays of it in the liquor stores here. One day I piced up a bottle and stood in line. I put the bottle back when I saw a homeless man, and a few barely 21 yearolds that were dressed as if they were trying to look like white rappers that also had Remy Martin. But I suppose thats a me problem not the product.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: MCompact
I agree with Craig; I'd change both no later than 60K at most. I change the MT and final drive oil in my 3er every 30K, but it sees the track from time to time.
I agree. 60K is doable on a well made transmission. I wouldn't go 60K on a known troublesome unit (I wouldn't buy a vehicle if I new the trannys were problematic).
I also agree with UnDummy that no fluid lasts a lifetime.
If you plan on keeping the car a long, long time change the fluid and filter every 50 or 60K.
I agree with Craig; I'd change both no later than 60K at most. I change the MT and final drive oil in my 3er every 30K, but it sees the track from time to time.
I agree. 60K is doable on a well made transmission. I wouldn't go 60K on a known troublesome unit (I wouldn't buy a vehicle if I new the trannys were problematic).
I also agree with UnDummy that no fluid lasts a lifetime.
If you plan on keeping the car a long, long time change the fluid and filter every 50 or 60K.
Taking my wife's '04 530i to the dealer for a diagnosis of some weird transmission activity like Craig in Canada is describing. If you let off the gas and gently roll back into the throttle, it's like it's trying to determine which gear to use. Most of this weirdness is when it's in regular drive mode. When it's in sport mode most of the weirdness disappears. The reason I'm taking it to the dealer is it's got 64K on it so if they find something serious I hope I will have some recourse with BMW NA. I'm going to get them to do a drain and refill at the least. BTW, my independent mechanic won't touch the tranny.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
