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#2088101 - 11/26/10 08:57 PM Re: What Company Does Everyone Use For Oil Analysis? [Re: Doug Hillary]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 47196
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Pablo - You said:
"....more repeatable results."

How do you determine this? Details to support this would be great - thanks in anticipation!


Understand accreditation. I provided a link. Some labs are accredited, some aren't.

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#2088111 - 11/26/10 09:18 PM Re: What Company Does Everyone Use For Oil Analysis? [Re: Pablo]
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 5109
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi,
Pablo - Oh I understand Accreditation very well indeed being one of the first person in OZ accredited as an "Inspector" in the ISO 9000 process in the 1990s!

However it is my understanding that UOA "repeatability" is a questionable subject to say the least. You have not supported your statement at all with facts at this point! I would suggest that Blackstone - a Sponsor here - would have similar repeatabilty ratios to the (non-sponsor) Lab you are promoting. Can you deny that??
_________________________
Regards
Doug

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#2088133 - 11/26/10 09:45 PM Re: What Company Does Everyone Use For Oil Analysis? [Re: Doug Hillary]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 47196
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Pablo - Oh I understand Accreditation very well indeed being one of the first person in OZ accredited as an "Inspector" in the ISO 9000 process in the 1990s!

However it is my understanding that UOA "repeatability" is a questionable subject to say the least. You have not supported your statement at all with facts at this point! I would suggest that Blackstone - a Sponsor here - would have similar repeatabilty ratios to the (non-sponsor) Lab you are promoting. Can you deny that??


I agree what we read here as " UOA "repeatability" " is indeed very subjective - however the lab repeatability is not subjective. Since you brought up Blackstone (I did not), they are not an accredited lab - how can you know how close to correct they are? How accurate is their equipment? When was it last calibrated? Traceable to what standards? Repeatable and reproducible at each laboratory with interlaboratory standards? It makes a difference - if you can't understand that, then you are just being an antagonist. If these things aren't important - chose any lab you want.

Doug - you need to be more careful. The lab I am "promoting" is indeed a sponsor. How was I unclear on that?

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#2088143 - 11/26/10 10:01 PM Re: What Company Does Everyone Use For Oil Analysis? [Re: Pablo]
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 5109
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi,
Pablo - In that case I defer to the Sponsor - I'm sorry!!

However the facts remain that you cannot endorse any better repeatability results from one Lab to another can you?.

In "end on end" UOA results when building a "Trend base" and when using the same Lab and lubricant it probably may matters little

The situation is very clear IMO - all Labs doing UOAs - except perhaps the Oil Company's own Labs - are subject to quite wide variances in repeatability

Costs and demonstrated service is one thing - repeatability is another IMO

I use Oil Companies QA controlled Labs to check their own lubricants. Over the years I have traced back many anomalies - let alone the repeatability factor - believe me there are many stories that abound in this area - but you already know that I presume?
_________________________
Regards
Doug

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#2088163 - 11/26/10 10:15 PM Re: What Company Does Everyone Use For Oil Analysis? [Re: Doug Hillary]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 47196
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
People are instantly guided to Blackstone on BITOG - fine and good, they are a sponsor. But there is another choice.

And of course we - the folks who have been reading the UOAs posted for the last eight years have seen some very, very strange results here. P levels at 1/2 of what they should be. Ca numbers all over the map. Zn numbers completely wacky. It's funny, more from one lab than another. But that has nothing to do with accreditation - or rather just plain good lab practices, you think??.......I do like it that Blackstone has good listening skills and will gladly recalibrate and repeat the tests - great customer service.

I disagree that the lab makes little difference - I think knowing a lab is repeatable is important. Let's just agree to disagree. I want a lab to get it right the first time, others don't.

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#2088173 - 11/26/10 10:24 PM Re: What Company Does Everyone Use For Oil Analysis? [Re: Pablo]
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 5109
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi,
Pablo - We reach some level of agreement then - repeatability is indeed a fragile and complex issue

It is quite amusing to read Blackstone's comments. These are often a mixture of hearsay, comic and misleading statements. This is one area that they quickly should put quite strict "QA" type controls in place

In the meantime I (like some others here) will continue to smile in bemusement at the comments - unless they take mine up and correct what is IMO a poor image for them!
_________________________
Regards
Doug

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#2088178 - 11/26/10 10:35 PM Re: What Company Does Everyone Use For Oil Analysis? [Re: crazyoildude]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 47196
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Fragile indeed.

Years ago I had a saying. But it was fairly unprofessional....oh what the heck......I will apologize in advance. Sorry.

Blackstone's comments are for entertainment purposes only.

I must say, they have actually improved of late. Or maybe I have not read them all.

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#2090604 - 11/29/10 06:49 PM Re: What Company Does Everyone Use For Oil Analysis? [Re: crazyoildude]
APStore Offline


Registered: 11/29/10
Posts: 30
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Polaris Labs.

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#2096419 - 12/05/10 03:33 PM Re: What Company Does Everyone Use For Oil Analysis? [Re: APStore]
AITG Offline


Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 408
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: APStore
Polaris Labs.

+1.

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#2096490 - 12/05/10 04:36 PM Re: What Company Does Everyone Use For Oil Analysis? [Re: crazyoildude]
bismic1 Offline


Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 42
Loc: Texas
I recently posted on a significant difference (at least IMO) in fuel dilution reported by Polaris and by Blackstone.

Polaris reported 2.9% and Blackstone reported <0.5%. Reddog responded to my post and said that Polaris uses a GC (more accurate) to report this number and Blackstone does not.

The samples I took were mid-stream samples after 20 miles of highway driving. I filled the second sample bottle quickly after filling the first. I let at least two quarts drain before catching the first sample.

I was surprised at the difference.
_________________________
2006 F250 6.0L PSD CC SB FX4

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#2108010 - 12/16/10 02:58 PM Re: What Company Does Everyone Use For Oil Analysis? [Re: The Critic]
HondaMan Offline


Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 671
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: The Critic
They all stink, and provide questionable info to be honest.

So I'd just go with the cheapest one.



How can you make such a general statement? How many UOAs have you paid for and submitted in which your service stunk, and from how many different labs?

Cost is a large theme in many of your posts. Why not say that you'd just "Go with cheapest" ? Why add "They all stink" ?

Not trying to beat you up, I wish you might take care in such an overall generalization.

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#2122944 - 12/31/10 05:06 PM Re: What Company Does Everyone Use For Oil Analysis? [Re: crazyoildude]
zanzabar Offline


Registered: 06/21/09
Posts: 424
Loc: NorCal
AVlube.com
Have used them for a long time and they are very interactive. Results seem very consistent.
$18 no TBN


Edited by zanzabar (12/31/10 05:07 PM)
_________________________
2007 Volvo V70 (142k miles)
2014 Ford Focus (31k miles)

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#2123087 - 12/31/10 06:53 PM Re: What Company Does Everyone Use For Oil Analysis? [Re: crazyoildude]
Steve S Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18449
Loc: East of IGO
Doug you seem to be in a rather good mood today!!!
_________________________
Why do people post I want the best for my car,,, When there isn't anything that is the best on the car to begin with.

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#2123384 - 01/01/11 01:25 AM Re: What Company Does Everyone Use For Oil Analysis? [Re: Steve S]
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 5109
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi,
Steve S - That was over a year ago................
_________________________
Regards
Doug

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#2123446 - 01/01/11 05:05 AM Re: What Company Does Everyone Use For Oil Analysis? [Re: crazyoildude]
FowVay Offline


Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 2603
Loc: Southeastern USA
I also use Polaris labs for my readings also.

Polaris does more than just oil analysis to include oil, fuel, coolant and industrial metal working fluids.

They recently opened a new facility in the metro-Atlanta area (Duluth) if anyone is interested.
_________________________
Quaker State across the board.

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