G11, G12, G12+, G12++ ??

[Kaie]

I have a MKIII [1994] VW Jetta 2.0. that i'm replacing a bunch of stuff in it's coolant system [hoses, flanges, t-stat]. I had an emergency and had to completely drain the system and put the auto store green stuff in.

But, what shall i replace it with!?

I did a bit of searching, talking to dealers, and a few VAG techs about this 'dilemma'.

Two of the dealers don't have it in stock and their lead techs haven't been trained on it. The independent VAG techs i talked to said they put G12 in everything; but confirm that G12++ can be mixed with G11 or G12.

The car came with G11. But soon VW changed to G12... i think in 1997? However it was essentially the same car.

So, G12 can't be mixed with G11. Neither can the G12+ that came out after the G12.

.... BUT NOW.... there is G12++ that CAN be mixed with both G11 and G12.

So normally i would just use G11 since that was what the car came with, but since that generation was later revised to use G12. Then maybe i should use that.

But now that there is this G12++ that can be mixed with G11 and G12 perhaps thats what i should use.

Anyone have any thoughts? I feel like i've basically made the decision to just use G12++. But, i figured i would throw the question out there.

 

[mechanicx]

You could also run G-05 or original green if you do a complete change.

 

[Kaie]

Yeah, i did see a bunch of vanagon guys talking about how they switched to G-05.

I'm for some reason interested in using genuine VAG coolant and power steering.

 

[FowVay]

Volkswagen no longer uses the blue G-11 product. It was replaced by the pink G-12 product back in 1998 I believe.

BMW still uses the blue G-11 coolant if you want to keep your car completely original. However, the coolant will be the same chemistry but will be from BMW instead of VW.

If you go to a VW dealer today you will get a product called G-12++. This is a pinkish purple coolant that is supposed to be compatible with the old G-11 and the newer G-12 products.

The blue G-11 is a 3 year service life product while the G-12++ is considered lifetime fill.

If you're buying from generic autoparts stores then you're looking for a product that meets VW's TL-744-C specification. Pentosin is a common supplier that you find in European autoparts stores.

For blue you'll have to go to BMW, for current VW OEM you'll get a different product from VW.

I'd get the blue from BMW and keep it original.

 

[pbm]

You state that you "completely drained the system" and installed traditional green. If it was my car I'd call it good for 2 years. I used traditional green in a 1988 Jetta (purchased new) without any problems. The OM called for 'non phosphate' anti-freeze but PEAK and ZEREX assured me that was only because of 'hard water' issues in Europe.
Good Luck.

 

[Kaie]

Originally Posted By: pbm
You state that you "completely drained the system" and installed traditional green. If it was my car I'd call it good for 2 years. I used traditional green in a 1988 Jetta (purchased new) without any problems. The OM called for 'non phosphate' anti-freeze but PEAK and ZEREX assured me that was only because of 'hard water' issues in Europe.
Good Luck.


Yeah one of the techs said 'just leave that in there. Though i have to replace a bunch of parts that are going to require the system to lose most of its coolant. so i figured id go with the OEM stuff. Whether its VAG, Pentosin, or FEBI i dont really care as long as its a G* =D.


Also. the water in my area is hard. Though id mix it with distilled anyways.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Kaie
I'm for some reason interested in using genuine VAG coolant and power steering.


If you can get the factory coolant at a reasonable price, I'd use it. My Audi is using a dexclone right now, with no issues. It's a sealed system, as I assume yours is.

For the power steering fluid, for sure, make sure you use approved fluid, or you will have issues. For me, the VW/Audi, Pentosin, and Bilstein fluids are the easiest to obtain.

 

[Dan55]

G12 is basically Dexcool, here's a good read http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/082004_04.pdf

 

[Kaie]

Originally Posted By: Dan55
G12 is basically Dexcool, here's a good read http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/082004_04.pdf


From everything ive heard from a local tech is he has seen many VWs with gelled up or blocked coolant systems come in where the owner popped into the local parts store and told the clerk they had orange coolant. Clerk points them to the Dexcool.

He also claims @ VAG training they said that was part of the switching color decision with G++ being violet colored.

Though i have seen people make this claim though. Along the same lines ive also read a lot of stuff saying G-05 is basically VWs G11.

 

[scurvy]

Ditto, I would not use Rust-Kool in a VW or in a GM vehicle, either. If you want to go off book, G-05 is a much safer choice & available at NAPA (among other places). Otherwise, you may want to find some of the G12++ previously mentioned.

 

[Dan55]

Did you READ the article I posted and understand what G12 is ?

 

[Dan55]

If Dexcool is so bad why is Ford changing over to it?

 

[rslifkin]

Dexcool in itself isn't bad. However, dexcool in a system not designed to handle it (incompatible gaskets and/or non-pressurized overflow tank) can cause problems.

 

[Kaie]

Originally Posted By: Dan55
Did you READ the article I posted and understand what G12 is ?


Not what you posted specifically no.

But i've been reading the [censored] out of coolant info. And i know from my local independent tech and the stuff ive read that they aren't the same at face value.

 

[Dan55]

Then maybe you can explain to me how they are not the same at face value.

 

[Kaie]

Originally Posted By: Dan55
Then maybe you can explain to me how they are not the same at face value.

From everything i have read is they are the same color yes. G12 is a non2-eh formula w/ BASF additive.

2-eh is the organics used in Dex-Cool that was blamed for the gasket failures in GM trucks.

Which would also explain why there was gelling when mixing G12 and Dexcool.