Originally Posted By: dnewton3
1) I want you tell all the readers why Amsoil didn't "spike" copper in this Dmax engine. I doubt you can do that, but I ask and wait.
I cannot explaint it, but then again, if you recall, neither can Amsoil! If they cannot explain it, I don't have to either. If you recall from some of my other posts, I clearly state that this "spiked Cu" event does not always happen. I clearly stated that both Amsoil and I cannot explain what this occurs to some Dmax engines, but not others. Intersting that you would accept their explination, but not mine, when they are the same basic statement.
2) I also want you to prove WITHOUT A DOUBT that ALL metal in a UOA is from wear (which you constantly write). You base you oil purchasing logic for others to follow using this idea, so a little proof should not be too much to ask.
I never, ever said that, and for you to infer that I did means you either don't read very closely, or you want to skew the topic. Clearly some metals are from the chemical reactions you profess. I agree that this happens. The underlying question is that none of us, you and I included, can tell how much is wear and how much is chemical stripping. And for some people, including me, I want as little removal as possible, regardless of origin. You cannot argue that metal removal is a good thing; your arugement is based upon the fact that some forms of metal removal are acceptable and some are not. That does not sit well with me, and others. I agree that some metal removal is inevitable, but that does not make it desireable. Those are two different concpets. I recognize that I'm getting older, but that does not mean I like it, or that I desire it. Same goes for wear metals and chemical stripping; I recognize them, but that does not mean I want them to happen. Your argument is based upon the fact that you think that because it's "normal" in an Amsoil UOA, it must be OK for it to happen. My logic is otherwise; I don't want any metals if I can help it, not at all, not ever.
Further, you (as a QE) must certainly recognize that spiked Cu in UOAs means whatever underlying issues might possibly exist,and will be masked by the very high "chemical reaction". You, and Amsoil, cannot explain that risk away. I recently read of another person that used Amsoil in his Dmax and it took well over 50k miles for the Cu to come down to normal. I didn't make that up; I didn't prompt his statment. But that is a LONG time to wait for Cu to "normalize" if you ask me. That is a long time to risk having some other event by being masked by a "chemical reaction.
3) And prove (which you never have yet) that when copper does temporarily go up with Amsoil in SOME Dmax engine, Fe does as well. You have posted a few inconclusive UOA's in the past, don't waste your time with that. Post some actual proof
To the contrary, I've posted some very direct UOAs that show this sympathic relationship. You just choose to ignore them.
This is about Amsoil in a Dmax because someone else brought it up, not me. But once the topic is opened up, so be it.
My point of the "noise levels" is true of ANY synthetic under these circumstances. To say that these Amsoil UOAs are within the noise levels is to say that Amsoil performed on par with dino oils, which is what the vast majority of the "universal averages" is based upon. So, in effect, Amsoil by your own recognition, did no better than dino oils.
I've answered your three questions. Now, please answer my one question:
If any lube can perform to the same desired level under the same "normal" circumstances, why pay 3x more money for any product?
1) Amsoil never actually answered why it doesn't happen in some engines, so it's not a matter of accepting it.
2) You almost always write "wear" metal(s).
3) You have yet to actually prove this relationship.
I actually have said 3 times now, for short intervals there is no need for full synthetic oils.
But you actually said 1,2,3,4 and 5 PPM of "wear metals" are not in the noise range.....that I find hilarious. A UOA is a very blunt instrument for picking oils and given all the lab and sampling error - for you to have some opinion that a UOA picks up actual wear in short intervals is nothing new for a BITOGer, but to say "LOT of dino UOAs ......10K mile OCIs give lower wear metal numbers than the use of Amsoil." Is fairly irresponsible. I actually have said 4 times now, for short intervals there is no need for full synthetic oils and you say I don't read or absorb your writing.
erformance ratio.. I'm perfectly happy to pay 3x the price, for 1% better performance to be honest, but that's just me.. I'm a cash buyer and keep my cars/trucks for 10+ years.. I'd like to keep this truck 20+
