Anyone have an opinion any particular brand/type of grease to use on polyurethane bushings? My lower control arm bushings are starting to squeak and I'm gonna eventually pull them off and grease them up again, but I'd like to know what people have had success with.
poly bushings and grease
- Thread starter Steve_RI
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Steve, I stick with silicone lubes for poly. There may be better greases now but some bases can deteriorate the bushings. It wouldn't hurt to contact the bushing mfgr so you know what they're comfortable with, and what works for your needs. I've had bad washout problems with some lubes. Wouldn't trust the lightweight silicon I use for long on LCA's, not without a monthly application.
David
David
You can use your standard type lithium or alum complex based grease on those with no ill effects.
Ny personal choice is the alum water proof moly grease but you can't find that in most auto stores anywhere. If my, I'd use the 221 #2 Schaeffers Grease.
Another application I use grease on is the battery terminals. This will not allow corrosion to set in as it seals the terminals from air.
Ny personal choice is the alum water proof moly grease but you can't find that in most auto stores anywhere. If my, I'd use the 221 #2 Schaeffers Grease.
Another application I use grease on is the battery terminals. This will not allow corrosion to set in as it seals the terminals from air.
The bushings are from Prothane. I lost the little tube of grease that came with them
so I used a marine grade grease on the upper control arms (two bushings). On the lower control arm bushing I used a cheapo general purpose grease, from Coastal if I recall correctly. The uppers seem to be holding up fine. The problem is the lower control arm bushing are a PITA to get at, you have to remove the torsion bars (fun, fun) and then deal with alingnment issues, blah, blah. I'd like whatever I use to last quite a while. Thanks for the suggestions
Just for fun, what does the "marine" grease use for a complex? does it say lithium on there anywhere?
That is correct. Lithium based greases will not hold up in any water enviorment. That's why you see so many boats on the side of the road with wheels missing. Lithium will milk up, and wash out. If you are wanting to keep a clean bearing, then lithium is your grease as it is a soap. Case in point, ever had dirty hands, used grease and notice how clean they become? Wont happen with the alum grease.
To demostrate this, Here is a page that will show some pics to prove my point.
Why Grease Turns Milky
The other thing is I personally like the moly as it helps created a high ep resistance. There is very limited times you don't want to use this kind of combination, but for most every situation, where lithium is used, an alum complex can replace it with no problem, therefore also allowing you to consolidate greases.
The other thing is because it doesn't wash out with this complex, you wont be using more grease, but less. That is what makes it cost effective.. kinda like extending your oil drains by using a quality oil.
To demostrate this, Here is a page that will show some pics to prove my point.
Why Grease Turns Milky
The other thing is I personally like the moly as it helps created a high ep resistance. There is very limited times you don't want to use this kind of combination, but for most every situation, where lithium is used, an alum complex can replace it with no problem, therefore also allowing you to consolidate greases.
The other thing is because it doesn't wash out with this complex, you wont be using more grease, but less. That is what makes it cost effective.. kinda like extending your oil drains by using a quality oil.
Ted,
Again, real life applications vers tech data....
Another story another day..
Just wanted to say that our greases per tube in comparision to the $4.00+ greases you mentioned... our highest priced one is less than $2.70 per tube whole sale.
This happens to be one of my biggest sellers as it has not met a match in quality in this price range.
Again, real life applications vers tech data....
Another story another day..
Just wanted to say that our greases per tube in comparision to the $4.00+ greases you mentioned... our highest priced one is less than $2.70 per tube whole sale.
This happens to be one of my biggest sellers as it has not met a match in quality in this price range.
Bob,
The reason for doing standardized bench testing is so you can compare apples to apples.... Does any lab test corrolate exactly with an actual application? Do I think the Four Ball Wear Test or Timken Load test done on engine oils is as good as running standardized engine tests? Of course not, but they are excellent QC tools when doing formulation chemistry ....They certainly give you an idea of the relative performance of competing products. This is especially true of greases, which are the most basic of lubes ....
The reason for doing standardized bench testing is so you can compare apples to apples.... Does any lab test corrolate exactly with an actual application? Do I think the Four Ball Wear Test or Timken Load test done on engine oils is as good as running standardized engine tests? Of course not, but they are excellent QC tools when doing formulation chemistry ....They certainly give you an idea of the relative performance of competing products. This is especially true of greases, which are the most basic of lubes ....
Yeah, I understand but also I see many people going around with a spring loaded hammer(called a mouse trap by me). The put a dab of grease on the plate, cock back the hammer and let it smack the grease. Now that showed it wasn't going to splatter... Good, next time I have to worry about a grease splattering due to it being hammered I'll look into one of those tests. Now, on the other hand, I have walked up to many types of greases and as of yet, have seen every lithium soap type grease absorb water and turn milky along with you can feel the base complex washing out. Do that with an alum complex and you can tell the difference.. no science in that, just plain old water and your finger. Sorry, just don't agree with tech data sheets in all aspects. I see them to be a good guide to see how well it might do, but many times I have been highly disappointed in the actual out come of the true use.. Particularly with some motor oils.
This is why I made the comment way back, Too much faith in those lab test numbers will lead you down the wrong path. Seen it too many times and I can assure you many others would have to agree that it can definatly throw a monkey wrench in things thinking it suppose to be better and turns out it fails , sometimes miserably, most time just less than you'd thought, in comparision to what it shows on lab tests.
Look at all these snake oil additives, fuel additives, and such... Their lab tests shows it works, how many times have you bought into something and found it didn't do it for you?
I guess I ought to add in though this may not be always the case but actually, tech data sheets should be used as one piece of a full picture puzzle as that is all you're seeing when looking at that.
[ October 18, 2002, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
This is why I made the comment way back, Too much faith in those lab test numbers will lead you down the wrong path. Seen it too many times and I can assure you many others would have to agree that it can definatly throw a monkey wrench in things thinking it suppose to be better and turns out it fails , sometimes miserably, most time just less than you'd thought, in comparision to what it shows on lab tests.
Look at all these snake oil additives, fuel additives, and such... Their lab tests shows it works, how many times have you bought into something and found it didn't do it for you?
I guess I ought to add in though this may not be always the case but actually, tech data sheets should be used as one piece of a full picture puzzle as that is all you're seeing when looking at that.
[ October 18, 2002, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
Bob,
Hmmm ... so I guess you would discount the results of the standard ASTM test used by the National Lubricating Grease Institute - NLGI - to evaluate water resistance of greases?
ASTM D-1264, % loss @ 175F:
Schaeffers synthetic blend grease with moly, NLGI #2 - 5.4% weight loss
"GLC", multipurpose synthetic grease, NLGI #2, a lithium complex grease - 1.6%
"GHD", HD synthetic grease w/ moly, NLGI #2, a lithium complex grease - 1.8%
"GWR", Water Resistant synthetic grease, NGLI #1.5, a lithium complex grease - 0.9%
Just to make you feel better:
Mobil 1, lithium complex synthetic grease - 6.0%
I know of no materials related issues that would prevent the formulation of a water resistant, PAO synthetic grease with a high quality, lithium complex thickener. Now if you are talking about some 99 cent per tube stuff, perhaps you are right. The first two products I listed are $4.00/tube, synthetic greases and "GWR" is $4.70/tube. The Mobil synthetic grease is also $4.00/tube....
Hmmm ... so I guess you would discount the results of the standard ASTM test used by the National Lubricating Grease Institute - NLGI - to evaluate water resistance of greases?
ASTM D-1264, % loss @ 175F:
Schaeffers synthetic blend grease with moly, NLGI #2 - 5.4% weight loss
"GLC", multipurpose synthetic grease, NLGI #2, a lithium complex grease - 1.6%
"GHD", HD synthetic grease w/ moly, NLGI #2, a lithium complex grease - 1.8%
"GWR", Water Resistant synthetic grease, NGLI #1.5, a lithium complex grease - 0.9%
Just to make you feel better:
Mobil 1, lithium complex synthetic grease - 6.0%
I know of no materials related issues that would prevent the formulation of a water resistant, PAO synthetic grease with a high quality, lithium complex thickener. Now if you are talking about some 99 cent per tube stuff, perhaps you are right. The first two products I listed are $4.00/tube, synthetic greases and "GWR" is $4.70/tube. The Mobil synthetic grease is also $4.00/tube....
Since I needed to install my new torsion bars way ahead of schedule, I decided to order up some #221 (from David Solomon) and re-grease those lower control arm bushings in the process. Man, the #221 is tacky. WOW! I needed to clean my hands with gasoline to get it off.
I think this stuff is going to work nicely on those bushings, especially with the moly.
Steve
I don't know anything about poly bushings.
I'm starting to learn about grease.
However, I do know that Bob knows grease.
Several months ago he encouraged me to add some 238#2 Moly Supreme grease to my order. I had mostly used Lithium complex on the farm and had accepted it for what it was. Once or twice had tried some Lithium synthetic wonder grease that promised great things for $4.00 a tube. Never got $4.00 worth of results.
Well Bob was right the grease does not come out of my u-joints it does not squeeze out of the rotation points on the front end loader and it does not separate under load or moisture.
Lithium complex did all these things and I just thought that was the way grease was suppose to be.
I think you will be pleasantly surprised with how the Schaeffers grease performs.
Bob if your reading this the 238 is great. The 30 tubes will be a 3+ year supply. ( 20 tubes a year with Lithium complex ). What conditions will prolong this greases shelf life.
Neil
[ November 19, 2002, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Neil ]
I don't know anything about poly bushings.
I'm starting to learn about grease.
However, I do know that Bob knows grease.
Several months ago he encouraged me to add some 238#2 Moly Supreme grease to my order. I had mostly used Lithium complex on the farm and had accepted it for what it was. Once or twice had tried some Lithium synthetic wonder grease that promised great things for $4.00 a tube. Never got $4.00 worth of results.
Well Bob was right the grease does not come out of my u-joints it does not squeeze out of the rotation points on the front end loader and it does not separate under load or moisture.
Lithium complex did all these things and I just thought that was the way grease was suppose to be.
I think you will be pleasantly surprised with how the Schaeffers grease performs.
Bob if your reading this the 238 is great. The 30 tubes will be a 3+ year supply. ( 20 tubes a year with Lithium complex ). What conditions will prolong this greases shelf life.
Neil
[ November 19, 2002, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Neil ]
I did use some anti-seize as well, especially between the sleeve and the spindle. I used Lubro Moly anti-seize, which is copper based.quote:
Originally posted by Judd:
Hey ya'll the anti-seize seems to be working out pretty good.Give me another 6 or so months
[ November 21, 2002, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Steve_RI ]
I have used sticky stringy cheapie boat axle grease on poly bushings with zero issues in many years and miles.
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