Myths of Driving a Manual Transmission

[motorguy222]

I am not going to quote each one here but there are MANY instances where a driver following can NOT see ahead of the car that is in front of them.SUV's,trucks and other large vehicles are on the roads and you cant see ahead of them unless you are several hundred feet behind them.

I do ask that those that think it is so safe to drive without braking to follow someone else that does this and see just how dangerous it is and can be.

I am not a fast driver and I dont drive on the bumpers of those ahead of me and I am as descent a driver as any of you here but there are those that dont brake and it can be a problem.

Why do you guys think that brake lights were added to begin with?

 

[Shannow]

In return, I ask you how do they know not to run into you when you stop accelerating and reach cruising speed ?

The differences in acceleration are pretty much the same.

 

[rslifkin]

I use engine braking a good bit in the Jeep, especially when stopping down hill. Typically, I'll hit the brakes very lightly just to trigger the lights, as it does slow down pretty quickly in 2nd from 50mph or so.

As far as corners, most people are so scared of corners, or inept at driving, that I can out-corner most cars driving the Jeep. I have a friend with an Escort ZX2 who routinely squeals the tires trying to stick with me on backroads corners, while I cruise right through comfortably and with no tire slip. Then again, RWD does improve the cornering dynamic greatly, if you know how to drive it.

 

[FZ1]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Are you saying that following drivers can't see that the gap between them and the car ahead is shrinking?
Maybe part of the problem is that so many people are automatic-only drivers, and don't realize that a stick will lose speed pretty quickly on a closed throttle in gear.
For that matter, you can bring the car to a virtual halt by rowing down through the gears, if you want to.
The brakes are for use when needed.
The brake lights indicate that I may be stopping really hard, so following traffic should be ready.
Coasting to a stop in gear is not at all like using the brakes, and I would think that any halfway alert following driver could figure out that I am gradually slowing, and that they will probably need to use the brakes in their automatic car.
I think what you were saying above is that following drivers don't know that they may need to use their brakes unless I use mine.
This is kind of like people following closely into a fast corner, using the car ahead as their speed reference, rather than looking at the corner itself.
Silly way for them to drive.
Never assume the other driver knows your intentions. Use the brake lights early and often. Drive defensively.

 

[Shannow]

So any time that you aren't actively accelerating, you should be riding the brakes ?

With fly by wire, would be relatively easy to have brake lights that only went off when the accelerator was depressed...but would be wrong.

Other driver should be driving his own car, in accordance with the road...if he is relying on your brake lights, then he's out driving his own abilities...not his understanding of your intentions.

 

[SteveSRT8]

As per FZ1: Drive defensively.

Never assum you know someone's intentions, that's pure folly.

I think we should have an amber light that comes on under normal decelleration without braking.

I never pay any attention to brake lights, I'm watching the rate of closure regardless!

 

[JHZR2]

I think busses have an amber deceleration light.

 

[Thermo1223]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog


Substitute pick-up or SUV for appliance and Mazda6 for BMW and you have my driving experience.


Substitute any car/truck for appliance and Forester XT with grippy tires for BMW and you have my driving experience.

Nobody expects me to hold the on-ramp at 60mph but I do with ease. They tailgate up until the point they would be headed for the ditch if they didn't stomp on their brakes.

Very amusing to watch...

 

[fdcg27]

Shannow,

I think I know what the soloution is.
Ban automatic transmissions.
This would force all drivers to pay attention, and would have the added benefit, in traffic, of eliminating the free hand used to hold phone to ear, to text on phone, to stuff face, or any of the other distractions that cause drivers not to notice that the car in front of them is not going as fast as they are.
Following the brake light theory to its logical conclusion, anyone who runs into you because they didn't see that you were slowing, or going more slowly than they, should not be held responsible.

 

[fdcg27]

Ya know, our Subie actually has pretty good grip, considering its weight and its ground clearance.
Having the back tires do some of the work no doubt helps, and our Forester is on pretty big, low profile meats for its weight and its intended mission.
A turbo Sube (ours is NA) would be quite a ride.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: motorguy222
I am not going to quote each one here but there are MANY instances where a driver following can NOT see ahead of the car that is in front of them.SUV's,trucks and other large vehicles are on the roads and you cant see ahead of them unless you are several hundred feet behind them.

I do ask that those that think it is so safe to drive without braking to follow someone else that does this and see just how dangerous it is and can be.

I am not a fast driver and I dont drive on the bumpers of those ahead of me and I am as descent a driver as any of you here but there are those that dont brake and it can be a problem.

Why do you guys think that brake lights were added to begin with?


The guy in front of me is usually part of my peripheral vision, even if it's a pickup truck or SUV, but it's still very obvious when the distance between me and him changes. Anything tall and square from a cube van to a semi is an exception, but I stay further back from those to avoid having to use the brakes when they slow for something I can't see and at higher speeds I stay way back to avoid being hit by debris until I can quickly pass.

Who's driving without braking, anyway? We're just talking about the minimal amount of engine braking that occurs when letting off the gas. I drive the same way when I'm operating an automatic, except I have to let off earlier because it coasts more easily. I would love to follow people like this more often, because they'd never hold me up by making me stop for lights.

Brake lights are a good way to alert people that someone may be slowing rapidly or stopped on the road. They shouldn't be thought of as something to wake another driver up. As far as I know, nobody has ever been close to rear-ending me. But if it happens someday, I hope it's due to a minor speed difference caused by me slowing than by someone piling into me while I'm on the brakes.

 

[calvin1]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Shannow,

I think I know what the soloution is.
Ban automatic transmissions.
This would force all drivers to pay attention, and would have the added benefit, in traffic, of eliminating the free hand used to hold phone to ear, to text on phone, to stuff face, or any of the other distractions that cause drivers not to notice that the car in front of them is not going as fast as they are.
Following the brake light theory to its logical conclusion, anyone who runs into you because they didn't see that you were slowing, or going more slowly than they, should not be held responsible.
I'm with ya! Make 'em only available by prescription.

(joking, but secretly wish it was true)

 

[calvin1]

Re "myth" #2, using the e-brake for hill start is cheating and unnecessary, IMHO. I did it as a newbie once or twice while I got it down but after that I think it's more trouble than it's worth.

"The most important rule, however, is never use the clutch to hold your car in place while waiting on an incline. Doing this will burn out that imaginary red light on the dash — as well as really burn out the clutch."

DUH, but the foot brake will take care of you just fine and the clutch can handle the 1/4 second it takes to get from brake to gas.

 

[fdcg27]

+1.
There is never a need to use the parking/emergency brake in starting uphill.
A little two-foot coordination is all it takes.
OT a bit, does anyone remember the hill-holder function from way back when (I think some Studebakers had it), most recently seen some years ago on Subarus?

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
...I never pay any attention to brake lights, I'm watching the rate of closure regardless!

I don't rely on anyone to maintain thier car. How do I know that thier brake lights even work?

 

[PeteTheFarmer]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
LT4 Vette's technique IMO is a defence mechanism against idiots more than it's a "courtesy".


That's exactly what it is, although having been rear ended three times already I'm often tempted to try it.

As for the article itself, I think it is decent as an intro. Some discussion of double clutching might have been nice, but maybe they felt that was too much for the intended audience.

 

[mpvue]

I agree w/ the opening part of the article; we carry bad habits with us from whomever we learned from. a friend of mine in her 50's still downshifts for EVERY stop; she most likely got this from her dad from the days when brakes weren't that good.
I had a friend w/ an old corolla; he kept the clutch pressed in the WHOLE time he was stopped at traffic lights!
I told him that he was wearing out his clutch prematurely- of course, the car was already almost 20 years old, over 250K on the original clutch, and he was the original owner, so it was like telling a 85yo man he should stop smoking because it was bad for his health...

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
Use the brake lights early and often. Drive defensively.


I was behind a driver that did that. Brake lights came on at random intervals between 1-4 seconds for no apparent reason.

Tired of being behind them with their needless brake application, I got in front of them, and did the same thing, applied my brake at random intervals for no apparent reason JUST LIKE THEY DID.

Oddly enough, they got fed up with being behind me and changed lanes.

Hmm...

 

[slalom44]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Use the brake lights early and often. Drive defensively.


I was behind a driver that did that. Brake lights came on at random intervals between 1-4 seconds for no apparent reason.

Tired of being behind them with their needless brake application, I got in front of them, and did the same thing, applied my brake at random intervals for no apparent reason JUST LIKE THEY DID.

Oddly enough, they got fed up with being behind me and changed lanes.

Hmm...

I agree. I can't stand being behind someone that is constantly applying the brakes. Each time their brake lights come on, I prepare myself for a sudden stop. I don't tailgate and I have no clue why they're applying the brakes. Besides - braking then accelerating constantly in heavy traffic is wasting fuel.

I've coasted down in speed while in gear for decades and I've never been rear-ended. No one has ever come close. I'm sorry, but I disagree with everyone that thinks it's dangerous to slow down without braking.

 

[cbear]

I attempt to use the brakes as little a possible. I paid for the gas to get up to speed, I don't want to waste the money by hitting the brakes.