startup in cold weather...how long to warm up?

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It's the same every year when I post in this thread.

I go when I can see.

If my windows are clear, I start, wait for the idle to drop below a grand, and put her in gear.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I am not aware of a single contemporary automobile engine in ANY car that uses splash lubrication for the piston, rings, bores, etc.

Can anyone name one?

Most automakers go to great lengths to isolate the spinning crank from the oil and avoid splash, as it wastes power/economy.



Yes, crankshafts certainly don’t run in the oil these days. All four-stroke engines now have oil pumps.

But in ye olde days, crankshafts in some engines did indeed dip into the sump to pick up oil and splash it about. Such engines had no oil pumps. Power outputs from those engines was low. Longevity was low, too.

Later on, some motorcycle engines had a positive oil feed to the cylinder from the oil pump.

This practice was discontinued when it was realized that a rotating crankshaft with oil pressure-fed to its big end bearings did a pretty good job of spraying oil around the inside of the engine. Even if you haven’t seen inside a running engine, it’s really not hard to imagine.

Whether you call this “splash” or “spray” or whatever does not alter the fact that it takes some time to get oil to the pistons, rings and bores. Mostly, the old word “splash” is still used.

Based on my observation, it does not take long to get oil splashed around, around 15-20 seconds.

That is why you should let an engine run for 15-20 seconds before moving off.

Every engine today that I know of relies on splash for some of its lubrication. How else does oil get to the bores, pistons and rings? They’re not pressure-fed. Wrist pins also get lubricated by splash. They’re not pressure-fed. Simply put, splash matters.

If you want to do movie-star starts on dry pistons, because you won’t wait those vital 15-20 seconds, I recommend you use an ester-based oil. Those oils have good ‘cling’ so that you don’t start up on a dry engine. There’s always some oil sticking to the engine interior, by polar attraction, even after shutdown.
 
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
You are both right & wrong.

http://www.mechlook.com/2010/04/lubrication-system-in-i-c-engines/

Also most high performance engines have piston squirters that shoot pressurized oil up underneath the piston as it moves up and down the bore.

So technically you could say in that instance the piston is pressure lubricated.


True and ALL engines receive some oil splash to the cylinder walls from the crank pins(rod journals), if they didn't the pistons would scuff and the rings would wear out in a few thousand miles...

As far as warm up??? I ain't ridin' in a cold car, if it's under 50* it'll run at least four or five minutes before I go anywhere(do the same with the AC)... Only exception is if I don't have a warm place to wait till it's making heat...
 
In my R which is garaged in winter I start the engine and drive off after a minute and follow the same procedure when I turn off the engine. Then again I don't shift at redline shortly after driving off. I follow that procedure because of the Turbo.
 
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Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
You are both right & wrong.

http://www.mechlook.com/2010/04/lubrication-system-in-i-c-engines/

Also most high performance engines have piston squirters that shoot pressurized oil up underneath the piston as it moves up and down the bore.

So technically you could say in that instance the piston is pressure lubricated.



True, but I think the purpose of the squirters is more to cool the piston than for lubrication. But I'm sure it adds extra lubrication as well.
 
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Originally Posted By: oblivion


Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
You are both right & wrong.

http://www.mechlook.com/2010/04/lubrication-system-in-i-c-engines/

Also most high performance engines have piston squirters that shoot pressurized oil up underneath the piston as it moves up and down the bore.

So technically you could say in that instance the piston is pressure lubricated.



True, but I think the purpose of the squirters is more to cool the piston than for lubrication. But I'm sure it adds extra lubrication as well.




Oil squirters are nothing new. Rolls-Royce aero engines had them. Their purpose was to cool the piston crowns and prevent seizures. They ran on full throttle for many hours non-stop.

The squirters had the additional benefit of increasing the oil splash to the small end bearings of the connecting rods.

On today’s engines, squirters help with thermal control and oil splash. But they don’t pressure-lubricate the pistons where it’s needed. Rather obviously, they squirt the wrong place (the underneath of the crown, not the outside bearing surface).

But I suppose that if there are holes drilled in the piston skirts, then oil splash could pass through, coat the bores, and lubricate the rings.
 
Actually again you are both right haha.

True, the piston squirters intended purpose is not lubrication but heat dissipation however there is gain from the added splash effect.

Usually though if the engine needs piston squirters it already has pressure lubrication the wrist pins via the connecting rod.

There are holes in the piston skirts but not to let oil in, mostly to let it drain back out into the sump.

That is what the car mags tell me at least.
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I usually wait between 10-20 seconds, just to put my seatbelt on, and for revs to come down to at least 1500. My commute is between 60-80 miles highway 4 days a week so I'm not realy concerned about fuel dilution
 
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On the coldest mornings, I'll idle a minute before launching off. Realistically, it will probably be longer if I'm scraping ice and snow off...
 
I wait at least until "flashing man" goes off (seat belt indicator) usually about 1 min. If it's really cold (teens) I'll let it warm up 2-3 min.
 
Originally Posted By: Rohan
I let the engine idle for 10-20 min everyday. I hope I'm not doing nothing wrong?



Nothing wrong but wasting a little extra gas. If you have an autostarter and just want to get into a warm car i can't really blame you, but in the summer you don't need a long warm up at all.



Myself in the winter let the car warm up as long as it takes me to get the ice off the windshield.

In the summer i just wait til the revs drop down to under 1k, which is usually less than 60 seconds or until the a/c kicks in enough that i feel like i am not being burned alive.

In the non snow really freezing cold days (between 0F-20F) sometimes i start the car and go back inside for 5 minutes so i don't freeze my butt off.
 
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I get to coast slightly over half a mile down my road until I get to the highway. I can literally coast out of my driveway and down my road without ever having to touch the gas. That is my warm up period, lol.

Funny thing is, we are all worried about what's going on inside our engines. What about our transmissions and rear ends?
 
Originally Posted By: Jaymus

Funny thing is, we are all worried about what's going on inside our engines. What about our transmissions and rear ends?


I'm more concerned with dropping the automatic transmission into drive or reverse at 1500 rpms or more, than anything else. Or engaging the clutch while a cold engine is racing. I'll spend the extra two cents on the gas and wait till the tach reads 1000 rpms before I start moving.
 
Well, I didn't mean to throw it in gear while the engine is revving high. I just mean, these posts are all about engine wear. Personally, I wonder what's going on inside my NP435 4-speed and Ford 9" rear end when it's freezing outside and I have to hit the highway, too.
 
I'm sure a stone cold transmission and rear aren't benefitting from taking off after flipping the key in the cold weather. I think the rear is probably the least effected though.
 
Jump in, start it, put my seatbelt on, adjust radio, go! I do take it really easy on the car until it reaches normal operating temperature. After it warms up I still drive like an old man lol!

I drive about 100 miles daily so overall my vehicles have it easy as far as service conditions go.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint


I'm more concerned with dropping the automatic transmission into drive or reverse at 1500 rpms or more, than anything else. Or engaging the clutch while a cold engine is racing. I'll spend the extra two cents on the gas and wait till the tach reads 1000 rpms before I start moving.


I've read a lot of this fear of clutching or shifting while in "fast idle".

First, 1500 isn't "racing" for any kind of clutch system. Just clutch accordingly and once you're on your way it's no big deal. The "fast idle" doesn't really have much power behind it - it's only the idle control/bypass valve holding the revs there.

Second, the car manufacturer designed the fast idle system, speced the transmission system and the software running on both. If fast idle was going to drop your transmission out of the bottom of the car they wouldn't have build it that way. Again, it's just the ICV/bypass, it's not like holding the throttle halfway and selecting a gear. Cars have been fast idling for at least 4 decades - anyone drop a transmission from that yet? Also, just about any modern automatic has signaling between the engine and transmission so that power output is reduced during upshifts for a smooth shift - that communication may also apply to softening "fast idle" when selecting a gear from P. My car also has alternator, AC compressor and other signaling to the DME/ECU which is used for compensation.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm sure a stone cold transmission and rear aren't benefitting from taking off after flipping the key in the cold weather. I think the rear is probably the least effected though.


The rear end also doesn't see any benefit from a 15 minute warmup. ONLY driving will warm it up. An automatic, particularly those with coolant/t-fluid heat exchanger, will warm up from idling but a manual doesn't see a lot of benefit.

Those warming their engines until they're toasty and then driving off like "it's all covered" are potentially doing far more harm to their vehicles than those who know that everything is cold and drive appropriately gentle. Then all systems warm up together.
 
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