Lubromoly vs Motul 8100

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I'm quoting this from an Audi forum where a member recently had trouble with bad turbos and is now looking to pump some of the better oil through his new OEM replacements.

"I searched different forums and I can't find if anyone has ever compared the two oils. Up until now I have been using Lubromoly 5w-40 and it's been running fine. It costs about $36 per 5 quart jug, which is somewhat reasonable for what is considered a good oil. Much better than the Mobil 1 oil it seems from all the tests reviews I have been reading. Anyways, a good friend of mine who owns an Euro auto repair shop started ordering large quantities of Motul 8100 Xcess oil and he can supply me with it for about $19 per 5 quart jug, about half the price of the Lubromoly. The Motul 8100 sells everywhere online for $47-50 for a 5 quart jug so I am definitely getting a good deal but is the oil better than the Lubromoly? I know Motul for their great gear oil and brake fluid but not too many reviews about their engine oil. I have their gear oil in my car and I can't complain but they are too different substances so one can be awesome and the other one complete [censored], although I doubt that's the case here.
Right now I have 7 quarts of Lubromoly for my next oil change and also 7 quarts of Amsoil synthetic oil that I got to try out, even though it cost me $9 per quart. I am set for my next two oil changes but since I will be installing my brand new BW K04s to replace my [censored] RP K04s I want to make sure I give the BWs the best oil in this price range, especially on priming and the initial start up with the first few thousand miles. I will probably use the Amsoil for that but want to stock up on oil for the future at this great price if it's worth the money.

I hope someone has tried these oils and can share some observations and impressions."

Original Audizine Thread

Thanks guys!
 
If I were going to use a 5w-40 from Motul's 8100 line, it'd be the new X-Max, not the X-Cess. X-Max is a much newer formulation that meets newer specs. I'm pretty sure X-Cess is soon to be phased out, which is probably why it's so cheap. It has its fans for sure; it's just old at this point.

As for Lubro Moly 5w-40, I'm assuming he's talking about Synthoil Premium S, which is the only 5w-40 I can see for sale in the US. Can't say how good it is, but its specs and approvals make it look comparable to Motul X-Cess. Again, Motul X-Max is approved for tougher and more modern specs, for what that's worth.

If your buddy can get access to Lubro Moly's European market products, there seem to be four 5w-40s available: Leichtlauf High Tech, Leichtlauf HC7, Synthoil High Tech, and Top Tec 4100. Based on the oils' approvals and Lubro Moly's product recommendations, Leightlauf High Tech seems to be most comparable to Motul 8100 X-Max, and Synthoil High Tech seems to be most comparable to Motul 8100 X-Cess. The others are lower-ash oils -- like Amsoil AFL 5w-40, incidentally -- so I wouldn't use them if you don't have to.

As for whether any Motul oil is better than the equivalent Lubro Moly product, it's impossible to tell without trying. The outcome may be different from engine to engine.

Good luck!
 
The Audi guys are obsessed with Lubro-Moly oil. There's nothing that special about it. It's just a HC group 3.

TopTech is not a full synth, BTW.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
The Audi guys are obsessed with Lubro-Moly oil. There's nothing that special about it. It's just a HC group 3.

Not all of it is.

Or were you talking about one Lubro Moly oil in particular?
 
AFAIK All Lubro-Moly is Group IV. To be classified as a full synthetic by EU standards it has to be a group IV oil, and Lubro-Moly oil is made to EU spec. I'm pretty sure it's a Group IV oil.
 
Originally Posted By: cryption
To be classified as a full synthetic by EU standards it has to be a group IV oil,

That may have been the case some time in the past. It is no longer.
 
Interesting - I'm trying to find more information but all I can find is stuff about Castrol and their lawsuit in the US. I was under the impression it's still all Group IV.

I shot LM a question regarding the base stocks. I asked them about the Synthoil High Tech 5w-40 - but now I wish I has asked about the whole product line.

I'm glad you mentioned it Pete - I'll be excited to see what LM has to say.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: cryption
To be classified as a full synthetic by EU standards it has to be a group IV oil,

That may have been the case some time in the past. It is no longer.
 
to get motul oils from competitive edge they are awesome!! have your order in couple of days!! i have them send the bill then i pay them.805 237 8911
 
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Originally Posted By: cryption
Interesting - I'm trying to find more information but all I can find is stuff about Castrol and their lawsuit in the US. I was under the impression it's still all Group IV.

Quick note: It wasn't a lawsuit. Just a complaint to the National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureau.

But back on topic: There are now Group III base stocks that are equal to or better than PAO in many important ways, and they are so highly modified from their feedstocks that you can't tell where they came from. No reason not to call them synthetic.
 
Originally Posted By: cryption
AFAIK All Lubro-Moly is Group IV. To be classified as a full synthetic by EU standards it has to be a group IV oil, and Lubro-Moly oil is made to EU spec. I'm pretty sure it's a Group IV oil.


Some of the Lubro-Moly oils they send to the US are Group III. Check out the data sheets for the US, and then check out the data sheets for Europe. The Synthoil Preminum is Group III HC oil for the US.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: cryption
To be classified as a full synthetic by EU standards it has to be a group IV oil,

That may have been the case some time in the past. It is no longer.


+1, The MSDS in each country may tell you the base as I've seen base oils change on the same brand of oil sold in one country differ in another. (ex. Total Ineo MC3). It's another reason why one should stick with OEM specifications.

I also believe the "Gr IV = Synthetic" is in Germany only. Not EU.
 
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Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl


I also believe the "Gr IV = Synthetic" is in Germany only. Not EU.

Yup. That's what I've heard, too.

And it'd be interesting how Mobil got around this to still be able to call M1 0w-40 fully synthetic in Germany, even though supposedly it's not all PAO anymore (VISOM).
 
Originally Posted By: cryption
I shot LM a question regarding the base stocks. I asked them about the Synthoil High Tech 5w-40 - but now I wish I has asked about the whole product line.


Synthoil High Tech 5W-40 is a Group IV full synthetic. Leichtlauf High Tech is a HC Group III, as are Leichtlauf HC-7 5W-40 and Top Tec 4100 5W-40. Group III products are referred to as 'Synthetic Technology' by Liqui-Moly.
 
Got my response from Lubro Moly:

Dear Mr.Ben,

Thank you for your inquiry of 15.10, and thank you for your interest in our products.
Our Synthoil High Tech is an group IV oil.The pour point is -45°C in this oil.
We are hoping to help you with our recommendations.
If you have any questions about our Liqui Moly products
We are very happy to answer your questions


Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus Ulm
With kind regards

i.A.

Michael Mayer
Anwendungstechniker
Abt. F&E / Schulung
Dept. R&D / Training
 
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+1 to Dood's recommendation of X-max over the other Motul PAO products. From the now over 100 UOAs we have for the VW DI 2.0 FSI, which IMO is a good test bed for demanding turbo DI applications, it is clear to me that ester-based (meaning containing a significant proportion of group V basestocks) really are in a different class for those applications. The PAO oils are obviously good enough for many applications (depending on what the user's intent is) but for the very demanding applications the ester-based oils really stand out to me.

For example M1 0w40, which is thought to be a good PAO oil, sheared out of grade on 23 of 24 UOAs, whereas most all (perhaps all, I'd have to check) the ester based oil UOAs remained in grade. That is a simplification of course because I'm not listing specifics such as fuel, OCI, etc. here but the more data you get the more comfortable you are at seeing the differences. The data backs up what Dyson said back in 2007, that in these DI turbo engines the PAO based oils all perform similarly (or to be accurate, similarly poor).

Thus lubromoly and Motul PAO may be in the same "perfomance class" (to make up a term) for demanding turbo applications, while the X-max, 300V, Redline, Biosyn, etc. (which are largely ester-based) may be in a different performance class if we were to use the demanding 2.0 FSI as a guide. Again a simplification because I'm talking only about basestocks and the whole formulation is what is important but I am seeing real differences in the ester-based vs. PAO oils. I wish Dyson were still on this board as I'm sure he could offer lots of insight on this topic.
 
Sorry I meant X-lite in my post above, not X-max. X-lite and 300V are the "ester based" ones. Too many "x-whatevers" to remember I guess. Rhouse181 used both xcess and xmax in his 2.0 FSI engine and they both held up o.k. for a 502 oil and there didn't seem to be much of a difference between the two. both didn't hold up as well as the ester-based redline 5w40 + 1 qt race oil he used. Here are rhouse's UOAS. His UOAs previous to this one were Motul but I'd have to go back and find out which is which. i know the one right before the redline UOA was Motul specific and as I recall it was Motul xmax and Xcess before that but cant remember for sure.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...050#Post1891050

I have no idea if it is on the Porsche or BMW or Mercedes lists as all it indicates is that it was tested to their minimum standard. In the case of the vw/audi list that minimum 502 standard is setting the bar low and tons of oils pass the test such as Yukos, Dong Ying Yin yi 1, and a whole bunch of other oils we've never heard of. And many good oils such as GC were not on the list. Does that mean it is bad? No. Just means it wasn't tested. Later GC was tested and added to the list. It didn't suddenly become a better oil just because it was tested. So the list only indicates it was tested to that standard. There are many excellent oils out there, such as some of the ester-based oils, that outperform the listed oils yet are never tested. probably due to the cost. I have heard the cost can be as much as $250,000 per formulation, per specification.
 
Here are some selections of a previous VW/Audi 502 list just for fun. Yacco and Waco's are interesting names...

Dongying Xinyi Xin Yi 1 5W–40
Adnoc Image 5W–40
Gamaparts Gold Synt 5W–40
Lubricating Oil AnYe 1 5W–40
Aral SuperTronic 0W–40
Bardahl XTC 100% Synthetic Motor Oil 5W–40
Xin Gai Nian 5W–40
Duckhams Q Fully Synthetic 5W–40
Fortum Neste City Pro 0W–40
Galp Formula TD Plus 5W–40
Igol Process Compact P 5W–30
Morris Multilife Synthetic 5W–40
Nocc Valar Gema XLL 053 5W–30
Oktanoil Mega Full 5W–40
Petronas Syntium 900 5W–40
Rafinerija Modrica Optima Magnum Plus 0W–40
Ravensberger Ravenol Hydrocrack Synth. HCS 5W–40
76 Pure Synthetic Motor Oil 5W–40
Shanghai Oil Refinery HAIPAI 2293 5W–40
Slovnaft Madit Ultra 5W–30
Teboil Gold 5W–40
Unicorn Ultra Synt 5W–40
Wako’s 4CT 5W–40
Yacco VX 1000 5W–40
Yukos U–Tech System 0W–40
 
Lubro Moly Synthoil is boner-central for the Audi guys and I have no idea why. It's not really that stellar of an oil, especially for the price. People just like it because it's German.

For that kind of money, I'd much rather go for Pennzoil Ultra.
 
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