A Grease Story

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Short Fiber grease
A year ago I set out to find what the semi-fluid lube in the closed steering knuckle of a 1988 Toyota land cruiser, It all started when I called the local dealership and asked what this was. Well I could tell I was not getting the straight scoop from the service manager, and what was indicated to use in the FSM didnt add up. It states to use a molybedendum disulphate lithium chassis grease #2, this term as I found out thru a oil and grease supplier is a rather vague term, This additive is found in all sorts of lube anything from oil or grease of any base and in its pure form used as a dry lube,

I knew something of this sort had to exist since I had seen this form of lube in a viscous coupler but had no idea what it was only that its characteristics where not what you normally encounter with oil, or grease

So I began reading in a old Motors manual to see what the manufactures used in the 60,and 70's. Ford stated to use 1/2 pint of the "proper lube" International indicated to use a viscous chassis lube, Dodge's term was "short fiber wheel bearing lube" all these terms still left me wondering what in the world this lube was, but did conclude that this was a fluid lube from these terms,

Then knowing that this design can be traced back to the WWII era vehicles I acquired a old Jeep book, In it I found the answer, sodium based lubes where used at the factory for initial fill, a #1 or #0 sodium based grease depending on temp.
In the #0 form this is a semi fluid lube, so I began trying to find some of this lube it took a while but I did find some the only way it I was able to get it is in bulk so I saved my pennies and ordered some and sure enough this was the stuff,
In my research I found that Dodge,s term was the best clue as well ''short fiber" is a term associated with the soda soap greases which is another term for sodium based

In reading up on this base of lube it is used in area,s that are prone to leakage and where high service intervals can be obtained, and in this application a slight amount of discharge is desirable to coat the exposed steel ball with a film of lube to prevent rusting and pitting,

Some how this form of lube has made its way down thru history and winds up in odd places, The only reason I have seen that it is no longer widely used is that it is incompatible with any other base of grease, seldom seen and rarely used is how I have seen it described, and I may add even more so misidentified, This form of grease is mostly misdiagnosed as axle seal failure in the closed knuckle application, which is understandable it has that appearance, the only reason that I thought twice about it is because I had seen it in a application where cross contamination could be ruled out. Thanks Frank
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We use a semi fluid grease for Toyota and other similar front axles....made by BP,and have no idea what it is,it's just what they supply for the application.I'll read the tin tomorrow,so long as one of the young guys hasn't thrown it out not knowing what it is.
 
Originally Posted By: Silk
We use a semi fluid grease for Toyota and other similar front axles....made by BP,and have no idea what it is,it's just what they supply for the application.I'll read the tin tomorrow,so long as one of the young guys hasn't thrown it out not knowing what it is.


Yes a semi Fluid grease is what is best used for this application, however the Toyota FSM indicates to use a lithium based #2 grease which is not only the incorrect grade but also a incompatible base, from what it is initial factory fill.

I have attempted to inform Toyota folks of this situation but end up running into well, [censored]
 
knuckle fill and adhesion demonstration

007_FillingHub.jpg
 
Since the spindle hub is designed to have fluid flow from the knuckle to the wheel bearings, the wheel bearings are filled with the same lube a #0 sodium based grease

005_OuterBearingInstalled.jpg
 
With this form of lube, a longevity of a min 30 years can be obtained. The way the patents read is practically maintinace free for the life time of the vehicle,
Very impressive and beings that is is from 80 years ago even more so,

This design of yester year puts modern rigs to shame,

Here is a link to the whole overhaul procedure on this axle,.
http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=76061
 
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Best researched, most interesting thing I've seen on BITOG in a *very* long time. If I ever get an old-school 4WD I know where to come & look up the correct lube for the front knuckles. Thanks, Frank!
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Originally Posted By: Stuart Hughes
Best researched, most interesting thing I've seen on BITOG in a *very* long time. If I ever get an old-school 4WD I know where to come & look up the correct lube for the front knuckles. Thanks, Frank!
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Thanks, Lets just say that when I first started and began presenting this information it was not well received on Toyota forums,
I have worked in the auto trade for a number of years and never knew the first thing about grease, started looking into this after repairing a Toyota rig, learned about grease,its crazy, What got me started when I started asking questions at the local Toyota dealer about this stuff, They told me that there was a "privacy act" regarding this form of lube,

While the exact ingredients are a Trade Secret, sure but they should at least tell folks its incompatible with any other form of grease.

If you want to learn more about this old school grease from the WWII era, Type in Locomotive Traction Gear lube, in 1985 the Texaco oil company together with the rail road tested this form of grease and documented it, while they decided the #0 and #00 grades of lithium based grease where what the ended up using, they have used this form off grease with success for years,
Its a good article all sorts of tests and information, I do not know how to link that file to here, If some-one can that would be great,
Thanks Frank.
PS IH8mush is the handle because when I first posted on this subject on the popular Toyota site IH8mud, I encountered a hornets nest of nastyness and massive confusion, I quickly learned that this was intentional,had a individual that worked for Toyota information services tell me the type of grease used for initial factory fill was a "Moly based grease"
Turns out that dont exist,
 
Should I bother posting what the toyota repair manuals state to use for knuckle lube?

Because from the factory, they did NOT come with a #0 lube, nor is it sodium based.
 
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Originally Posted By: Rix
Should I bother posting what the toyota repair manuals state to use for knuckle lube?

Because from the factory, they did NOT come with a #0 lube, nor is it sodium based.


http://www.moabjeeper.com/articles/general/listing.cfm?articleID=557

Here is a link to what Toyota Motor sales states to use in the book written by The seperate division Of Toyota The sales department,

While they will state (Toyota Motor sales) is that this semi fluid grease is "outdated" and recommend a #2 moly chassis grease for a CV joint,

Which is not what the industry standard is, also lots of warnings not to use a ordinary chassis grease, for a cv joint,

So it should not be a huge suprize that Toyota salesmen dont know anything about grease,
And state to use a incompatible one in the Toyota FSM from that of the #0 proprietary initial fill,

Thanks Frank
 
Salesman (which you are, frank, because you are trying to sell something) don't write repair manuals.
There is no proof of your claims, and myself and others have already stated that you are incorrect on your claims of your #0 grease being used in toyotas from the factory.
I even went so far as to post pictures of the factory stuff, which you handily ignored.
 
Originally Posted By: daman
Looks similar to the John deer corn head grease,we use this stuff by the cases in our choppers and Combines

Corn head grease


That the stuff exhists is not a bone of contention. neither is the fact that it has been used in the past, and maybe people have even put it in toyotas.
It did not, however, come from the factory in toyota axles.

From the factory, they had nice thick grease, consistant with the stuff we put back in them, as per factory repair manuals.

They will start leaking when the inner axle seal fails,, and the gear oil from the differntial contaminates the grease.
This is further supported by the contamination of the gear oil in the differential.
 
Originally Posted By: Rix
Originally Posted By: daman
Looks similar to the John deer corn head grease,we use this stuff by the cases in our choppers and Combines

Corn head grease


That the stuff exhists is not a bone of contention. neither is the fact that it has been used in the past, and maybe people have even put it in toyotas.
It did not, however, come from the factory in toyota axles.

From the factory, they had nice thick grease, consistant with the stuff we put back in them, as per factory repair manuals.

They will start leaking when the inner axle seal fails,, and the gear oil from the differntial contaminates the grease.
This is further supported by the contamination of the gear oil in the differential.

Huh?
 
google "tranny frank" "backwoodsgoop" and maybe ih8mush.

He's basically a spammer trying to sell some sodium base #0 grease, saying it was used at the the toyota factory level, and it was not.

I'm just trying to clear the air, so to speak.
 
The situation is that I went to Toyota, asked some questions about grease, Did not get straight answers,

Fact of the matter,

So after being in the automotive trade for 20 years, decided to learn about grease,
After Toyota told me they had a "Privacy Act" about this semi fluid grease

It has been very interesting learning about this subject I had never stopped to learn about, or was taught,

So If Toyota can fill these wheel bearings full of this semi fluid grease and get almost unlimited mileage with out service,

I figered I would stick it in other types of vehicles, a wheel bearing is a wheel bearing no matter what name is on the Rig,

I recently finished with a repair to a 1979 Ford open knuckle axle when I get the pics lined up I will post them,

And sure spammer you bet, grease is made from fat, classic, that is meaning of the word, grease, animal fat derived from the Latin.

And Rix these guys know grease,so we will get to the bottom of this and Why Toyota has a "Privacy Act"
 
Originally Posted By: IH8mush
Why Toyota has a "Privacy Act"


Probably because it has a proprietary asbestos base thickened with dredgings from Hiroshima Bay and micronised lead/mercury amalgam solid lubricant additives.

Toyota does not tend to have good technical customer support. I think it might be because the guys who would know the answers (the lube engineers) are in Japan and don't speak English. I think the Toyota model for a long time was Toyota builds them ships them to US Sales and US Sales sells them with out any mixing of roles. With more US design and Manufacturing that will probably change.
 
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Originally Posted By: MonumentOiler
Originally Posted By: IH8mush
Why Toyota has a "Privacy Act"


Probably because it has a proprietary asbestos base thickened with dredgings from Hiroshima Bay and micronised lead/mercury amalgam solid lubricant additives.

Toyota does not tend to have good technical customer support. I think it might be because the guys who would know the answers (the lube engineers) are in Japan and don't speak English. I think the Toyota model for a long time was Toyota builds them ships them to US Sales and US Sales sells them with out any mixing of roles. With more US design and Manufacturing that will probably change.

oh, we have Japanese intervention on occasion.
but that's irrelevant in this case.
Frank has just made some incorrect assumptions, and a leap that is incorrect.
not to mention trying to say axle seal leakage proven by contaminated differential gear oil....... isn't .
for amusement, take a trip over to the 4x4network.com.
Frank has been proven wrong......repeatedly, about multiple issues pertaining to this topic.
 
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