Rotella 15w40 in an Allis 7000 at 200 hours

[Hurst89]

This is the latest oil sample of 15w40 (ignore the sheet, as they still have 10w30 from the last sample of the 10w30 breakin oil). This tractor gets started almost every day in the winter to run for about 45 minutes, so as you can imagine, those are some hard hours on this oil. This is also the tractor that I installed the by-pass filter on. I plan on changing the oil at around 225 to 250. I will probably go on and change all the filters. Hopefully as the engine breaks in more (by around 300-400 hours) the metal numbers will continue to fall. The copper is most likely from the copper tubing for the bypass filter that I am using, as this was the first oil change with this filter set up, so the copper tubing was fresh for this sample. Do you think I should go with Delvac 1300, Delo 400, Rotella T3, Rotella T5, or Rotella T6? If I go Rotella T6, I would need a good reason to spend that much more money. The tractor gets about 250-300 hours of use a year, a lot of that being start and stop in the winter, where it may not get past 170 degrees.

Link in case it's too small to see on here:
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/laxattax89/Rotella15w40Allis230hoursonOH200onoil.jpg


Hurst

 

[Steve S]

Tractors get hard service and high loads.

 

[dnewton3]

Man, my old eyes can't read that. The link is no bigger.

 

[Hurst89]

I'll see if this is better:

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/8663/rotella15w40allis230hou.jpg



I hope that is a little better. If it's still unreadable, let me know and I'll try again.

Hurst

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Man, my old eyes can't read that. The link is no bigger.
I clicked the zoom up to 200% and can read the info real good and I never realized your turbo spins.

 

[Rob_Roy]

Everything looks good for such a fresh engine, it will continue to settle down as you use it.

What kind of winter temperatures do you see in KY? Does the tractor ever get used in the summer?

If the tractor is used for any kind of spring/fall tillage or hard summer work, I would run a 15w40 in it. Those AC 301's were not blessed with a lot of cooling capacity, and can really run warm on a hot day. Even if the tractor doesn't do any summer work...if it doesn't see a lot of starts below zero, I would still run the 15w40 year round. 5w40 is another option, but probably not necessary in your climate. UOA's would be a good idea to make sure fuel dilution and condensation aren't a problem.

What kind of work do you do with the AC 7000?

 

[Hurst89]

We rarely see anything colder than the teens in the winter, usually hovering in the mid to high 20s, but it is in a part of the shop that isn't heated, so it does have a wind break and that part of the shop is insulated, so that helps. In the summer it gets to do all the round baling and a lot of batwinging with a 20ft batwing mower. It's not hard tillage work, but that woods batwing will run the snot out of that 301, but it usually stays around 195-210 on the temp gauge (I'll idle it down if it gets over 210 and it has a 190 or 195 thermostat in it). I'll definitely keep up with the UOAs. I know it's kind of a matter of opinion, but is there any reason I should change to something besides Rotella? I have always heard that it is best to keep with the same oil, so if I want to change to something else, I figure while it is breaking in would be the best time to do it. I am kind of disappointed by Rotella's Zinc and Phosphorous amounts...

Hurst

 

[Rob_Roy]

Teens + parked inside = 15w40 is good to go.

I bet that 20' batwing makes the 301 earn its keep! We have an older Wood's batwing brush-hog that is close to that size, we run it with a JD 4250. The catch with that type of work is the amount of debris/dust that gets caught in the radiator. As you have observed, things can really get hot quickly.

You can run Rotella...or anything else that you want to try. A premium oil isn't required, but it could offer a buffer if you plan to let someone run the tractor that doesn't keep a close eye on the temperature guage. A fancy oil won't save the engine if they turn it into Chernobyl, but it can offer some insurance on a hot day. I have personally seen the cams wiped out of two Cummin's engines that were running Rotella in very hot (coolant temps. within limits) conditions. One was in a Case 7150 tractor, the other was in a 6910 JD Chopper. After that, I decided to let the OTR trucks run the Rotella and put something else in the off-road equipment. Everyone has their "favorite oil", so you wil get plenty of recommendations.

I would agree that it is ideal to break in the engine on whatever VISCOSITY you plan to run in the future, but it certainly isn't critical and the engine won't care if you switch brands.

-Rob

 

[Hurst89]

Yeah, I wish it was still easy to find CI-4+ oils, as those seemed to provide better protection for cams in older diesels. I have some Delvac 1300 I got on sale for $8 a gallon at O'Reilly's, but I will have to look at some oil analyses to see what the EP additives look like on those. I may go with JD Plus 50, as it's made for their off road equipment. I guess I'll look through the oil analyses and see what I feel comfortable with using. I'm up for any suggestions, I just prefer something that is available locally, which limits me to Citgo, Shell, Mobil, Chevron, and Valvoline for major brands, I believe.

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions!

Hurst

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: Hurst89
Yeah, I wish it was still easy to find CI-4+ oils, as those seemed to provide better protection for cams in older diesels.
Hurst


Hey, why have you already condemed the CJ-4 oils, before you've even tested them in your application?

When you say "seems like", does that mean you're merely looking at VOAs?

There are, by now, thousands of UOAs in all kinds of locations that show CJ-4 does well in nearly all applications, and provides wear protection on a par with, if not greater than, the oils it replaces.

But don't let facts get in the way of your desire.

 

[Hurst89]

I haven't condemed CJ-4 oils, it just seemed that the older CI-4+ oils had a little stronger additive package, but then again I guess I may not be seeing all of the stuff that is important in the new oils with a standard oil analysis. I've been doing some reading, and have to admit, I have started to see some light to CJ-4 oils. It seems there is something that makes them work well without the very high levels of "traditional" additives. Don't worry, I will probably end up with a CJ-4 oil in the end, as that is what is commonly available any more, even Plus 50 is CJ-4 now. Are there any CJ-4 oils that seem to stand out compared to the others for a tractor application with a turbo diesel and a bypass filter with extended oil drain intervals (225-300 hours vs the original 100 hours)?

Hurst

 

[Rob_Roy]

CJ-4 oils are held to some very tough requirements in terms of deposits, soot handling, and oxidation. You can read a little more about CJ-4 here: http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdditives/CJ4Specification/PerformanceTesting.html

225-300 hours should be easily achievable with a conventional CJ-4 oil in your application...especially if you have a bypass filter installed (the lack of EGR helps too!).

 

[roadrunner1]

deere is telling us that the plus 50II (cj-4) is good for 500 hrs in thier engines with thier filters. i think just about any cj-4 oil should be good for 250 hrs., but as always follow your owners manual with uoa's.
i have been using plus 50 for as long as its been available (used the torqgard supreme 30wt. prior)and have never had a bad sample with the 15w-40. i have 10 gallons of the plus 50II in the shop waiting to be changed into a 466 deere, i haven's even taken the cap off to sniff the new stuff yet.

 

[Jim Allen]

RE CI-4 vs CJ-4: I would make that decision based on the fuel. If you have switched over the ULSD, which almost everyone has now, even ag fuel, you will find the CJ-4 works well in combo. Does on my tractors, one a very high hours machine.

Viscosity: In your winter description, I would be running a 10W30 if it's approved for that engine. But I would balance that against what you do in the summer. Hard tillage, long hours haying in hot weather... maybe a 40 grade. But, dang, I think a 15W40 is a bad choice for a short-hopped tractor used in winter. Not immediately harmful, but not optimal either. If you do both extremes, the 5W40 covers you. A good block heater might be another way to equalize a 15W40 for winter.

Were that my tractor, I'd hook up an oil temp gauge and monitor oil temps over an average year. If they stay below 212F the way you use it, and assuming 10W30 is approved, that's what I'd use. If temps are higher a good bit of the time, the 15W40 or 5W40 is more in order.

Don't forget that new Rotella T5 10W40 either, which they have a TSC now. That might be another equalizer. Unfortunately, we don't know much about it... might be a shear monster with that viscosity spread.