Not VW507 certified oil in a VW507 required engine

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Let us put the warranty problem aside for the moment.

From what I understand, VW507 oil is required mainly for extended drain intervals.

Does that mean you can use any synthetic oil (PP, Syn, M1 (not the ESP version),...) which are not VW507 certified in a VW507 oil required engine, as long as it is not for extended drains (between 5 to 8 Kmiles)?

Are there any other problems you can have by not using the correct oil, even on shorter OCIs?

To be more precised, I am talking about 5W30 version of these oils.

Thanks in advance,
 
Short answer no, those oils are not diesel rated, let alone made for a new diesel with emissions systems.

507.00 is for emissions systems protection and for CR diesels. The $10,000 emissions system... it's not warranty issue, it's a technical issue.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
PP, Synpower, Syntec M1, in 5w-30 flavours are not even synthetic oils per the EU.


I keep hearing that. Can you show us an EU definition of "synthetic" oil?
 
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Short answer no, those oils are not diesel rated, let alone made for a new diesel with emissions systems.

507.00 is for emissions systems protection and for CR diesels. The $10,000 emissions system... it's not warranty issue, it's a technical issue.


Could you explain me the main (you have probably more interesting things to do than educate me) technical issues of these oils in a CR diesels?
Too much P and Zn? Too much ashes?

That would be appreciated.
 
Originally Posted By: Pesca
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Short answer no, those oils are not diesel rated, let alone made for a new diesel with emissions systems.

507.00 is for emissions systems protection and for CR diesels. The $10,000 emissions system... it's not warranty issue, it's a technical issue.


Could you explain me the main (you have probably more interesting things to do than educate me) technical issues of these oils in a CR diesels?
Too much P and Zn? Too much ashes?

That would be appreciated.


You are correct, the latest ESP oils, be they API (CJ-4) or Euro (VW/Audi, MB, BMW) are lower in SAPS (Sulfated ash, P and Sulfur) than previous oils in their respective areas.
 
Originally Posted By: Pesca
Out of your head, by how much? Is the difference that important?

Otherwise, I will try to find the information.

Thanks for your responses.


Before we get to SAPS in oil, the oils you mentioned are not diesel rated (95% of the off the shelf 5w30 oils) so they don't even meet the basic requirements for a diesel engine.

You really only have one option for a CR TDI, that's a 507.00 oil. You *probably* could use a MB 229.51 5w40 oil if you wanted to, but at your own risk.
 
There was a fairly long thread here with a guy who had a Sprinter.
His final word was that he would use T6, although it did not exactly meet the required MB spec, since that is what the dealer used.
Could you probably use T6 in a VW 507 application?
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
There was a fairly long thread here with a guy who had a Sprinter.
His final word was that he would use T6, although it did not exactly meet the required MB spec, since that is what the dealer used.
Could you probably use T6 in a VW 507 application?


The VW SAPS limits on 507.00 are much lower than CJ-4. I don't know how a CJ-4 5w40 would do.

Having to buy the correct oil from the dealer, mail order or brick-and-mortar every 10K miles is a non-issue.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
There was a fairly long thread here with a guy who had a Sprinter.
His final word was that he would use T6, although it did not exactly meet the required MB spec, since that is what the dealer used.
Could you probably use T6 in a VW 507 application?


Not if you ever hope to get Volkswagen to cover a repair on the engine under warranty. Currently the only issues I have heard about the exhaust system have been mechanical failures such as EGR motors or sensors. If there were a failure of the catalyst system while using a non-approved oil I can guarantee Volkswagen will wash their hands of any obligation to repair the said vehicle.

They require a low SAPS fluid for a reason. Whether they're being overly cautious is yet to be learned. I do feel that the hype regarding the use of Norm 505.01 in the PD TDI engines was way overblown. These engines fail prematurely regardless of what oil is used.

My hope is that VW isn't sacrificing durability of their engines in order to meet some warranty duration requirement of the exhaust system. With that being said, I use a 507.00 oil in my CR TDI but I doctor it a bit. My fuel system is the same way.. I use ULSD but it always gets additised in order to add lubrication, up the cetane, and dry the fuel a little. I have come to the conclusion that after the warranty expires I am my own warranty provider, so I'm not afraid to start the risk a bit earlier if it will make my car last for my expected duration.
 
There's another thread on this forum that talks about Nissan having very stringent specs for their gas engine cars . BMW has tough specs for their M series cars .
It ain't only VW !
 
Originally Posted By: FowVay
My hope is that VW isn't sacrificing durability of their engines in order to meet some warranty duration requirement of the exhaust system. With that being said, I use a 507.00 oil in my CR TDI but I doctor it a bit. My fuel system is the same way.. I use ULSD but it always gets additised in order to add lubrication, up the cetane, and dry the fuel a little. I have come to the conclusion that after the warranty expires I am my own warranty provider, so I'm not afraid to start the risk a bit earlier if it will make my car last for my expected duration.


Would you mind sharing the information?

What 507 oil do you use?

What do you use in the fuel system? I read some threads about failures about the High Pressure Fuel Pump. Is that why you use this product?
 
Originally Posted By: TTK
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
PP, Synpower, Syntec M1, in 5w-30 flavours are not even synthetic oils per the EU.


I keep hearing that. Can you show us an EU definition of "synthetic" oil?


In the EU Group IV and V are classed as synthetics, these are the PAOs and the Esters.

Castrol won in court, to get Grp III classed as Synthetics, since hydrocracked dino-oil performs like PAO oils, the Judge agreed, and that's when Mobil 1 became Group 3, and why only German Castrol Syntec 0w30 over here is the only Syntec that is really a synthetic oil, while the rest are overpriced and overhyped like Mobil 1(atleast north of the border).

That ruling only really applied to the US but marketing muscle and a lack of fight basically made it North America wide.

Processed Cheese is still Cheese... Heavily Processed Dino Oil is still Dino Oil...
wink.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: BobFout
[You really only have one option for a CR TDI, that's a 507.00 oil. You *probably* could use a MB 229.51 5w40 oil if you wanted to, but at your own risk.


I will never advise using a non-spec oil during the warranty period. But afterward, the Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5w40 would be a logical non-spec choice. It's available at Pep Boys, and probably available from the warehouse if you ask at NAPA or CarQuest. Otherwise online.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
There was a fairly long thread here with a guy who had a Sprinter.
His final word was that he would use T6, although it did not exactly meet the required MB spec, since that is what the dealer used.
Could you probably use T6 in a VW 507 application?


I may have been that guy and while the Shell T-6 may be ok, I decided to play it safe and use an oil whose company endorsed it for MBenz use and that oil is
Schaffer's T-9000 synthetic oil which is MBenz and all VW engines certified -
ih0idj.jpg
 
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Originally Posted By: badnews
I may have been that guy and while the Shell T-6 may be ok, I decided to play it safe and use an oil whose company endorsed it for MBenz use and that oil is
Schaffer's T-9000 synthetic oil which is MBenz and all VW engines certified


You should really learn the difference between 'certified to' and 'recommended for'.
wink.gif
Not that it's keeping me from using it in my PD Golf, but that's a different matter.
 
You should learn that Schaeffer's is a company that you can trust.
33.gif


YMMV
 
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