UOA Suzuki 1000cc V-Strom, M1 10-40HM, 1350 Mi

[RWEST]

Okay, got Blackstone's report back today.
The bike is a 1000cc water-cooled V-twin. Filter is Puro ML16818. The oil was M1 10-40HM which was what I put in before last winter. I changed it this time (put in M1 15-50) at only 1350 miles because the shift feel was getting notchy. I know that's very subjective but, that's what I do. Per Blackstone's comments, there was plenty of life left in the oil, so...

Let's see if I can round up the prior UOA, and add this one to it.
UOA #1 was with 2,000 miles (3,000 total) on Castrol ACTevo 10-40;
UOA #2 is 1,782 miles on M1 15-50 Red Cap;
UOA #3 is 1,300 miles on M1 10-40 HM;
UOA #4 is 3,300 miles on M1 15-50

Total miles on the bike = 10,650:
ALUMINUM: 4; 4; 7; 7; 4
CHROMIUM: 0; 0; 0; 0; 0
IRON: 26; 27; 27; 33; 21
COPPER: 2; 1; 2; 2; 1
LEAD: 1; 0; 1; 2; 0
TIN: 1; 0; 0; 2; 0
MOLY: 11; 65; 80; 77; 76
NICKEL: 1; 1; 1; 1; 1
MANGANESE: 1; 1; 0; 0; 0
SILVER: 0; 0; 0; 0; 0
TITANIUM: 0; 0; 0; 0; 0
POTASSIUM: 0; 2; 1; 0; 3
BORON: 6; 148; 200; 186; 198
SILICON: 16; 15; 9; 5; 5
SODIUM: 0; 6; 8; 6; 6
CALCIUM: 1752; 2709; 2643; 2983; 2833
MAGNESIUM: 9; 16; 15; 17; 15
PHOSPHOROUS: 774; 1082; 825; 1186; 846
ZINC: 880; 1255; 980; 1057; 1080
BARIUM: 1; 0; 0; 0; 0

SUS VISC. @210F: 64.2; 76.9; 68.4; 72.4; 68.0
Cst Visc. @100C: 11.40; 14.74; 12.53; 13.59; 12.42
Flashpoint: 375; 410; 420; 385; 405
Fuel %: TRACE; Antifreeze %: 0.0; 0.0; 0.0; 0.0; 0.0
Water %: 0.0; 0.0; 0.0; 0.0; 0.0
Insolubles %: 0.2; 0.3; ---; 0.2; 0.1
TBN:5.8; 11.7; 11.3; 8.2; 10.8
TAN:
ISO Code:
Blackstone's comments:
RON: Wear improved nicely with the short oil run. This is the lowest that we've seen it read, which is a good sign that no problems are developing at steel parts. While it was a little above average last time, it still read well within the normal range, so overall we think your engine is doing just fine at 10,650 miles. No fuel was present in the sample and the viscosity of the oil read normally. The TBN was strong at 10.8 so you had more than enough active additive left to have run this oil longer. Everything looks good from here. Go on back to 3,000 miles next time.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

OK Im confused Title says 10w-40HM but you just did a 15w-50? What column from left is the 10w-40 HM? col#3?

 

[whitesands]

Thanks for the report....How long does it usually take for the shifting to get notchy with the M1 15W50 ?

 

[RWEST]

ARCO - there are 5 UOA's there. The last one is 10-40HM, as was #3.

Sands - usually around 3,000 - 3,500. My old Bandit was pretty much the same, too.

 

[BigJohn]

Why in the heck, do you test oil at 1,350 miles on the DL1000? The manual calls for 3,500 OCI's with "run of the mill" dino motorcycle oil.

I have totally bought in to the HDEO Dino practice and am doing 5k miles on Mobil Delvac 15w40 through the summer months on my DL650, as is my son on his DL650.

I will post a UOA pretty quickly, as I am tearing up the miles since my valve adjustment.

 

[sunruh]

thanks!
for proving in yet another bike that M1 15w50 doesnt hold up. and you proved it twice! nice going.
of course the castrol actevo was HORRID!

and a hair under 40wt in only 1350 miles with the hm10w40? ouch.
i doubt you are spinning the rpms to really thrash it.
please double the miles. i wanna see a 20wt. please please please. then i want to see the stoners comments.

when it comes to actual wear, that zook must throw off a lot of steel. 26 for a low. ug. how clunky is the tranny?
the rest look good.

2 up!

 

[whitesands]

For his bike the shearing of the M1 15W50 is not a problem as the oil is still within the range of acceptable viscosity for use in that engine...

From the standpoint of it maintaining it's 50WT badge no it doesn't hold it very well...But the viscosity is not a concern in the context of being what is needed to protect his engine..

 

[sunruh]

maybe. why does he see the same level of iron with M1 that he does with HM even though the susvis was higher?
acteveo went more miles with lower susvis and produced less iron. what about that?

how do you know that any of those are good with iron at 26+?

i'd try a much different oil with the exact same mileage.

 

[Mackelroy]

For the first 10,000 miles I agree with freequent flushes , IMO looking for anything real bad .

The best iron levels were with 15w50 but that was also well after the tranny was broke in. Which I feel it takes a solid 7 or 8 thousand miles, to rid most of the iron.

So from this point, if you ran the same oils again I would expect those iron numbers to drop. I wonder if suzuki trannies do give off alittle more iron naturally.

I typically saw sub 10 levels on iron in my VFR in the first 8,000 mile, with 1300 to 2000 mile changes. I broke the bike in on 5w40 Diesil Rotella syn. After that it was amsoil 15w40 till 20,000 mile

 

[whitesands]

Originally Posted By: sunruh
maybe. why does he see the same level of iron with M1 that he does with HM even though the susvis was higher?
acteveo went more miles with lower susvis and produced less iron. what about that?

how do you know that any of those are good with iron at 26+?

i'd try a much different oil with the exact same mileage.



That's what has me wondering...Castrol produced less iron yet it had a lower viscosity so I'm wondering if it's just a chemistry thing with M1 or something but then again were're talking a difference of a few parts per million...It would be interesting to see another UOA at 20,000 and see what it looks like...

 

[sunruh]

Originally Posted By: Mackelroy

The best iron levels were with 15w50 but that was also well after the tranny was broke in. Which I feel it takes a solid 7 or 8 thousand miles, to rid most of the iron.


actually M1 15w50 had the WORST iron levels:

UOA #1 was with 2,000 miles (3,000 total) on Castrol ACTevo 10-40;
UOA #2 is 1,782 miles on M1 15-50 Red Cap;
UOA #3 is 1,300 miles on M1 10-40 HM;
UOA #4 is 3,300 miles on M1 15-50

IRON: 26; 27; 27; 33; 21

actevo was 26
15-50 was 27
10-40 was also a 27
15-50 was then a WORST showing of 33.
and the last reading was 21 was again on 10-40 HM.
his current fill is 15-50.

HM average is 24
15-50 average is 30

 

[JAG]

sunruh, the wear rate (PPM/1K miles) for iron is what needs to be looked at, to account for the different OCI lengths. The wear rate numbers are below. Regular M1 15W-50 did have the lowest iron wear rate of 10 PPM/1K miles. The highest was M1 10W-40 HM (sample size 2) with avg. of about 20 PPM/1K miles.

UOA #1 on Castrol ACTevo 10-40; wear rate: 13
UOA #2 is 1,782 miles on M1 15-50 Red Cap; wear rate: 15
UOA #3 is 1,300 miles on M1 10-40 HM; wear rate: 20.8
UOA #4 is 3,300 miles on M1 15-50 wear rate: 10
Current UOA is 1,350 miles on M1 10-40 HM; wear rate: 19.3

 

[Mackelroy]

I think the results are identical amongst all the oils, not enough to draw conclusions especially during the first ten thousand miles.

I think I'd try a Motul or Redline MC product, they normally have lots of moly in them, see what that does to the wear numbers if they dont subside.

 

[RWEST]

Hi guys - finally got back here.

Okay, is the iron level something to be concerned about?

I thought I read somewhere that M1 tends to yield hi Fe numbers.

What in there would be iron, anyway?

BTW - John, I drained it because I didn't like the way it was shifting, and sent a sample out for a UOA, just 'cause..

 

[KernelK]

Originally Posted By: RWEST
Hi guys - finally got back here.

Okay, is the iron level something to be concerned about?


What were the universal averages on this model motorcycle?

Are you aware there is a 500,000 mile Goldwing running M1 15w-50 at 5000 mile intervals? Sleep well tonight.

 

[whitesands]

Originally Posted By: RWEST
Hi guys - finally got back here.

Okay, is the iron level something to be concerned about?

I thought I read somewhere that M1 tends to yield hi Fe numbers.


It looks like a nice UOA to me especially considering the relatively few miles that are on the engine...The only thing bad in the report (not bad for your bike) was that M1 showed it wasn't able to maintain its viscosity for very long but no worries as the viscosity is still in a recommended range for your bike...As long as it doesn't drop below 40 weight during your OCI it should be just fine....

I may try out the M1 15W50 in the Bandit 1250...Been using Rotella 15W50 except for a couple of short intervals with another oil for nearly 19,000 miles and it seems to work very well up to about roughly 2,500 miles or so the shifting gets notchy and that's about when I usually change it...I would like to go a bit longer on the OCI's....

 

[dnewton3]

I am going to rant here for a moment, so bear with me (no personal offense meant; it's hard to be humble when you are going to nit-pick ...).

I do see the validity to frequent flushes (two or three) in the first 5k miles of any new equipment. I, too, like to flush out the manufacturing "leftovers" and draw out the break-in stuff. But I don't see the logic to doing UOAs on such flushes. Why spend the money on UOA to look for wear when there is zero expectation of wear being settled yet with such a young piece of equipment?

It has been proven in an older SAE/Ford/Conoco paper that too frequent OCIs can actually lead to increased wear. Plus, changing oil brand/grade, (in addition to frequent continued OCIs), is going to totally screw up any hope of consistiency in your UOAs; you simply CANNOT make any fair judgements on which oil is "best" (I truly hate that term). It is completely illogical from a statistical point of view. You are just throwing all kinds of chemistry changes at the engine that will NOT result in any decent UOA data.

Now, please understand that short OCIs with varying brands and grades of oil will not necessarily harm your engine significantly over the long term. But it WILL affect your UOAs to a point where they are useless for determining wear. UOAs are always good for reading TBN, coolant and other contamination. But you SHOULD NOT make lubricant judgments with such willy-nilly brand/grade bee-bopping around. (And yes, I realize those are not "technical" terms, but you get the point).

If you continue this frequent OCI/UOA practice, you will not only be grossly under-utilizing your oil, but getting lots of good useless data ... A waste from every angle.

Run you break-in OCI plans, and then settle on one brand/grade of oil and start your UOA plans. Do your UOAs on a consistent pattern. The engine you have is a good solid design; well proven and liquid cooled. I would suggest you consider a minimum of 5k miles for your UOAs, and then adjust your OCI once the consistent data shows you where they are prudent.

 

[BigJohn]

I like this statement......

I used to run dino oil, because I didn't know what I didn't know.
Then, I used "synthetics", because I thought I knew better.
Now, I use dino's, because I know the truth.

and me.......I am also back to HDEO for my bikes!!!!

 

[dnewton3]

Thanks BigJohn.

Don't get me wrong, because I do believe there are times when synthetics make very good sense. But the only two circumstances that typically contribute to this are E-X-T-R-E-M-E cold (well down past what any sane person would ride), and greatly extended OCIs. Synthetics can be just the right solution, but ONLY if you are in one of those circumstances.

If you're not doing either of those, dino oils perform just as well for often 1/3 the cost. And HDEOs make great motorcycle oil!

 

[Mackelroy]

I dont know, I ran castrol gtx in both my vehcles over the past 6 month or year , plaqued the [censored] out of them. Even the dipstick on the toyata was plaque coated

I thought this was decent oil, never again.

On a side note Shell 10w30 has very good cleaning properties