When have you heard of a recall expiring?

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I just yesterday found out the tires on my car were subject to a 400,000 tire recall by Goodyear, Kelly, Douglas and others. The tires have a DOT code beginning with NWHY and are sized in P215/70R14. The recall was voluntary by the company, kind of a buyback situation, and it happened in late 2007.

So my local Wal-Mart tire and lube tells me, "That recall expired, you should take it up with Goodyear, we're not honoring that recall any more"

The Goodyear shop in Waco tells me, "I don't stock that tire size and I'm not making an order for a 2-year old recall, get out of here, I've got paying customers to wait on"

I didn't know safety concerns about tread separation could expire. NHTSA never issued a recall because the manufacturer did this voluntary thing, and now I'm stuck with tires that could go any day now.

I did go to a junkyard and spend what money I did have for a 225/60R16 Eagle RS-A spare on a CVPI wheel. I need to get three more at least. I'm really not happy about this.

Has anyone else received a recall notice and then show up at the dealer or store only to be told, "nah, we're not doing that any more, stick it in your ear and listen for the violin to play"???
 
Automotive recall expire all the time. I keep a complete list of Ford, GM and dodge light duty and diesel recalls that are current and expired for the past 10+ years.

TSB's do not expire
 
Originally Posted By: DieselTech
Automotive recall expire all the time. I keep a complete list of Ford, GM and dodge light duty and diesel recalls that are current and expired for the past 10+ years.

TSB's do not expire


TSBs supersede though. its funny when people bring in printed out ones from the internet that are old and no longer apply, or have been updated to one that contradicts theirs.
 
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
TSBs supersede though. its funny when people bring in printed out ones from the internet that are old and no longer apply, or have been updated to one that contradicts theirs.


I don't see how that is funny. I do see it as a failure on the part of the car companies. They should do a better job communicating these issues to their customers.

robert
 
Maybe it's time for me to talk about "recalls".

There are "recalls" and there are "campaigns". The word "recall" only covers government ordered removal from the market, where the word "campaign" covers both voluntary and government ordered removals.

However, the automotive industry (which would include the tire industry) uses the word "campaign" (as well as "Customer Satisfaction Program" and similar wording) to make the distinction between the 2, where the general public uses the word" recall" for both. I think in most cases, the general public isn't aware there is a difference.

Unfortunately, the NHTSA perpetuates the lack of distinction by calling their look up table a "recall" database.
Recalls are government ordered and have to have 3 characteristics.
Please not: From this point forward, I am going to adopt the industry usage and only call something a recall if it is government ordered.

The 4 characteristics of a recall:

1) The item has to be identified in such way that it is absolutely clear what is included, and what is not.

2) There has to be a safety related issue. There are no "recalls" for bad paint, for example. Poor tire wear is another example.

3) The "failure" has to be diagnosed (a root cause identified), so that the limitations of the recall are reliable - that is, if the recall is limited to a production run (perhaps by date of production), then the root cause has to be demonstrated to NOT be in items outside the recall period.

This was one of the problems with the "Unintended Acceleration" of Toyotas - root cause. The floor mat was at least something tangible - and that leads me to the last requirement:

4) The recall has to provide a remedy.

In the case of tires, it seems pretty easy - replace the tires. In reality, it means that supplies of tires have to be put in place, a procedure has to be documented for anyone on the retail end to follow. Until all that is put in place, the government will not issue the recall.

But in the case of UA in Toyotas, just recalling them isn't enough. There has to be a "fix" that addresses the "root cause" - and if a root cause isn't identified, there can not be a fix, and there's no recall.

Campaigns can turn into recalls if the government - meaning the National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) - determines there is a reason to do so. They did this for the second Firestone recall. But it requires extra work on the part of NHTSA, so it is only done if the situation is obviously a safety issue - which requires an agreement by the company doing the recall.

If the company doesn't agree, then NHTSA has to do an "Engineering Analysis" (EA) and that not only takes time, but keeps folks from working on other things. EA's are pretty extensive, may require lots of testing, and it may take over a year for the report to come up. Only then can a campaign be turned into a recall. Needless to say, NHTSA tries to persuade the company so they do not have to issue an EA.


Recalls do not expire - however, the remedy might.

Put another way, a tire may be recalled and - say - a replacement provided free of charge for the first year after the recall is announced. But after that year, the remedy might be a prorated replacement.

Remembering that recalls have to be approved by NHTSA, it is common for the remedies to be free of charge for at least the first year. BUT any changes to the remedy require that NHTSA be notified. They can over-rule a change, but after a couple of years they rarely do.

Campaigns, on the other hand, are done entirely at the discretion of the company. NHTSA will only intervene if they feel there is a clear reason to do so – meaning there is a clear and large safety issue - AND - if it isn't going to be difficult to accomplish.
Campaigns generally follow the same 4 characteristics as recalls, but there is a lot of wiggle room.

Campaigns can expire – and the remedy can be altered – all at the discretion of the company.

Edit: I forgot to talk about notification.

Needless to say the rules about notification for recall are much more rigid than for campaigns.

In a recall, every effort has to be made to notify potential owners. When it comes to vehicles, the original owner is pretty easy to identify - the dealership will notify the vehicle manufacturer of the sale of the vehicle so the warranty gets activated. failure to do so means no warranty coverage - and that can be a real problem for a dealership.

However, as time goes by, people move, vehicles get sold, and the connection to the owner can get lost.

This is further complicated by the fact that almost all of the states will NOT release information about the ownership listed in their vehicle registration database.

So unless you are the original owner living at the same address when you bought the car, then it is unlikely that anyone will find you to tell you about a recall.
 
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Another problem with recalls is that there is no "rating" system for recalls.
Some stats only compare the number of recalls, but you need to read the entire recall. Some recalls are for something serious that can cause a crash, some recalls are only safety related.
For example, Michelin had a recall for some "PA2 ZP 225/50 R17 94H" because the tires were missing the letters "DOT" on the sidewall. "DOT" letters are required for US tires by NHTSA.
 
Originally Posted By: robertcope
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
TSBs supersede though. its funny when people bring in printed out ones from the internet that are old and no longer apply, or have been updated to one that contradicts theirs.


I don't see how that is funny. I do see it as a failure on the part of the car companies. They should do a better job communicating these issues to their customers.

robert


If someone wants a TSB performed, we have to print it out and attach it to the RO from Ford's webapge that only dealers have access to. When someone brings in an old or obsolete TSB that htey printed off a forum we have to explain that it is obsolete and there is a new procedure and no we will not do the superseded one. Usually a new one will have updated part numbers, and people will argue that they need these specific part numbers on their obsolete TSB when there is a newer, better part or method of fixing their issue.
 
Maybe I should do like the old Discount Tire commercial and "bring back" the tires the hard way. Problem being Wal-Marts don't have plate glass windows in the tire/auto department. Darn...
 
Occupant,

First, I suggest you deal with the corporate headquarters, rather than someone locally. Goodyear ought to have an 800 number to call - but be sure it's for the tire manufacturing portion of the business, not their retail outlets or the other businesses that Goodyear is involved in.

Second, be absolutely sure your tire is subject to the recall. I can see reports about it, but it appears to be highly limited. It covers 3 production years, and 23 different brands, so on a per year per brand basis, that's less than 6,000 per year - a pretty small number.


And one last piece of advice: Be armed with as much information as possible. Be polite, but firm. If they tell you your tire is not covered by the recall, then ask for a copy of the recall notice - or at least the number (if you don't already have it.) That way you can verify what they told you.
 
At this point I'm forgetting about it. Tires are half worn, starting to crack a bit on the sidewalls, and they're dated 6+ years old. I wanted to put 16" CVPI steelies on it and now I have one. Picking up three more tomorrow. These tires will go on my wagon so it can roll again and I'll sell the hubcaps on eBay to buy a set of trim rings.

All that's left to do in this thread is to hate on Wal-Mart.
 
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