Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple Ice

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Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Peak Global is a lifetime coolant just because their marketing says so? Explain how PGL can last longer than Dexcool? Global has sodium benzoate which is used in 2 year coolant and in G-05. So tell us since you are so technical what's the other magic ingredient that makes it last longer than Dexcool and its extended life HD coolant variants? And if it is so good then why are OEM manufactures using Dexcool and not Peak Global.

They should be using Peak Global and Water Wetter according to you, but none of them are. I guess manufacturers are too "shade tree" and "non-technical".


All of your questions are answered here (pay attention to the phrase "patented organic acid technology"):

http://www.peakantifreeze.com/faq_global.html#B

We all know how good Amsoil, Red Line, Royal Purple are but the car manufacturers are too cheap to use them. Heck, they are also too cheap to use synthetic oil in all of their models. Manufacturers are not shade tree, they are just too cheap.
 
Guys ..guys. Cut him a break. He's a Honeywell guy. If the manual for Honeywell UDC's is any indication of the corporate culture he was forced to endure (Col. Kurts - The horror - the horror
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), you might consider cutting him some slack. They're all about convoluted and textural games of sophisticated semantics.

After figuring out how to configure a PID loop on my own, I really wanted to meet the guy(s) who wrote the manual. He/they were the basis for my creation of Gary Allan Consulting Services. My service will take any product (hardware/software) and work with it. If any senseless instructions or procedures are involved ..FOR NO GOOD REASON ..I will (included in the consulting fee) go to the offending person's office grab them by the tie or necklace and cause them to meet a hard object ..repeatedly if the stupidity of the instruction/procedure was of high frustration on the frustration quotient scale.
 
Let me add that the only way I can wrap around azsythetic's conceptual view is in the case of a heating system. The thermostat doesn't "maintain" the heat. It's merely a switch to actuate the heat maintenance device (furnace- whatever). The flaw in that concept is that an automobile engine is not in the heat maintenance business. That's the job of the cooling system. Heat is merely a byproduct of the operation. The thermostat manages that heat production to maintain it within narrow confines. In a heating system it would require 24/7 operation with the thermostat opening your door to the cold to provide a comparable view.
 
On topic....I added Purple Ice to my coolant after it was fully flushed and replenished. I have been running it for at least 30k with no issues. It's in a 2005 Nissan Titan.

I can't say it runs much cooler, but it just gets plain hot here in the summer and I run my a/c all day (it's my work truck) so I want to keep the engine as cool as possible.
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
You are the one that veered off topic and are not able to show any proof that I have asked for.


It's clearly pertinent to the topic when people think that it will lower their coolant temperature, when the thermostat controls that very same coolant to that very same temperature.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Let me add that the only way I can wrap around azsythetic's conceptual view is in the case of a heating system. The thermostat doesn't "maintain" the heat. It's merely a switch to actuate the heat maintenance device (furnace- whatever). The flaw in that concept is that an automobile engine is not in the heat maintenance business. That's the job of the cooling system. Heat is merely a byproduct of the operation. The thermostat manages that heat production to maintain it within narrow confines. In a heating system it would require 24/7 operation with the thermostat opening your door to the cold to provide a comparable view.


My GOD!!!, someone actually understands what I was saying. You are right about the Honeywell culture also. I quit being a regular Honeywell employee and came back in as a consultant for more money and less corporate propaganda.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Let me add that the only way I can wrap around azsythetic's conceptual view is in the case of a heating system. The thermostat doesn't "maintain" the heat. It's merely a switch to actuate the heat maintenance device (furnace- whatever).


But in that application too, the thermostat CONTROLS (regulates, maintains, limits, use any verb you want) the temperature in the space being heated by the heating system. Thermostats are inherently control devices, just like a light switch is a control device. They've existed so long that their purpose (controlling engine temperature) isn't patentable- which is why patents only state something unique about the mechanism by which they work- balanced against water forces or not, actuated by a bimetallic spring or a wax pellet, that sort of thing. As you know, there is NO other control element in an automotive cooling system. A radiator is not a control device, it is passive. The flame in a furnace isn't a control device, it is just a heat source. The engine isn't a control element, its also just a heat source.

Azsynthetic is all wrapped up around the fact that the only direct action the thermostat takes is to regulate water flow- but that is totally irrelevant to its purpose for existing. That's why I brought up the light switch- the only direct action it takes is to allow or interrupt the flow of electrons... but who really cares about that? The goal is to turn the light on or off. Controlling water flow just the MEANS by which it controls engine temperature, just as interrupting the flow of electrons is the MEANS by which a light switch turns off lights.

Given all that, its perfectly clear (to anyone who thinks it through and doesn't go off down a rabbit trail looking at the wording on patents) that even if these additives double or triple or quintiple the heat transfer rate across the water/metal junction, they will not (and in fact CANnot) change the temperature of the water exiting the engine, because that temperature is controlled by the thermostat.

Quote:
The thermostat manages that heat production to maintain it within narrow confines.


Which is what you, Shannow, I, Boss302fan, and everyone else have been saying all along in this whole miserable thread, and which Az keeps denying over and over again.
 
I agree with you. That's why I prefaced it by saying "the only way". I've worked in human services. It's filled with artsy-faurtcy types that reword stuff in creative ways. I do it too. Creative analogs.

It's also agreed that regardless of how Water Wetter or whatever does in increasing thermal conductivity, the temp of the outlet water won't be reduced. Nothing stops it from exceeding that setpoint if system capacity is marginal/undersized.

I've met the head tech guy for Evans Coolant. They used to be down the street. I have also talked with a couple of their tech people (socially) and they'll tell you outright that nothing is going to compensate for too high an output with too little system capacity. They can prevent you from boiling over.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

But in that application too, the thermostat CONTROLS (regulates, maintains, limits, use any verb you want) the temperature in the space being heated by the heating system.


You just don't get it. It CONTROLS the flow of coolant and not the temperature. It "DEPENDS" on the "temperature" of the coolant to "CONTROL" the flow of coolant. The technicality of it escapes you.
 
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Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

Azsynthetic is all wrapped up around the fact that the only direct action the thermostat takes is to regulate water flow- but that is totally irrelevant to its purpose for existing.


What would happen if you installed the thermostat backward? Would it still control the temperature like you have suggested and why not?
 
Provided you got it open in the first place, and there was flow around the bulb, it would control the temperature, just couldn't go from cold, closed condition.

What on earth does installing control equipment incorrectly have to do eith it's function.

Do your Honeywell thermostats control if wired backwards ?

And why would you want to CONTROL the FLOW of coolant in response to temperature, if you weren't that temperature ?
 
And what on Earth are BMW trying to accomplish with this arrangement, if not to control coolant temepratures, both into, and out of the engine ?

Check the J-Cat as well for a thermostat that controls coolant temps into and out of the engine, and the works f Aussi John Bennet in the 90s for inlet control only.

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Well, I'm happy with my flow control valve (s). Appears to also control my engine temp within a very narrow range after warm up.


That's one complex routing and flow valve containment fixture there, Shannow.
 
I went to put my lower hose thermo onto the beemer, and found that BMW were already controlling both as it was.

Which makes me think there's no strong reason to get rid of your other one.
 
I see. I was just accidentally ahead of my time. The advantages of long pondering on the topic before acting ..
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My overall thoughts on it is that neither end of the regulation can fully manage well under too broad a process variable.


We'd run into this with the evaps where solids would climb and the outlet valve would start dumping more and more liquour ..which would then call for more and more cold feed. This would then dilute the solids too much and slam the outlet closed. You would then get too much dwell time, pressures would build and back up to the 1st effect ..boiler cycles down to near idle (we drew 90% of plant demand). I would install limits on the feed and discharge valves (% opening) so that everything stayed in a narrow range. Cold feed would be limited, steam draw would be stable, vessel pressures were stable ..boiler wouldn't cycle up and down ...etc...etc.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Provided you got it open in the first place, and there was flow around the bulb, it would control the temperature, just couldn't go from cold, closed condition.

What on earth does installing control equipment incorrectly have to do eith it's function.

Do your Honeywell thermostats control if wired backwards ?

And why would you want to CONTROL the FLOW of coolant in response to temperature, if you weren't that temperature ?


When the coolant in the radiator is approaching boil over then the thermostat will open but then it will be too late. The point here is that the engine thermostat is only good for coolant flow control and not temperature control. When installed backward, the engine thermostat will still function perfectly per design only the coolant flow is now reversed.

If it was not for the need to heat the cabin and emission control you would not need an engine thermostat. Dedicated race cars don't have them. With the current advances in electronics and fuel injection you can have almost perfect combustion at any engine/air temperature albeit at a greater cost. A perfect example of this is the current military turbine engines.

And for the last time, the home thermostat has a different function than an engine thermostat. I can rewired my home thermostat to turn on the room light but that does not prove any thing. Now there is an idea, I can patent my home thermostat as a light switch, hhmmmmm....
 
If you install a the thermostat backwards you will not change the flow direction of coolant, only changing the water pump and cooling routing can do that. It will be the same, but the engine will run hotter and probably overheat.

Engines do not run or wear fine at just any temperature. They run and wear best somewhere around 190 F coolant temperatures. An engine without a thermostat will not heat up properly in Winter, and it's bad for engine wear, oil life, and fuel dilution etc.

Race cars are driven WOT and have a water restricter which acts the same as a thermostat would under constant running conditions. Just about everything you've said about engine thermostats I disagree with. A properly working thermostat and coolant temperature is important for engine efficiency and long life.
 
azsynthetic, exactly what do you get out of you crazy description of automotive thermostats ?

You can't be that wrong, and that persistent without your description being linked to some tangible benefit that requires such a view.
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
When installed backward, the engine thermostat will still function perfectly per design only the coolant flow is now reversed
.

I didn't think you could possibly post anything nuttier than you already have, but then you just did it. Amazing.

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
If it was not for the need to heat the cabin and emission control you would not need an engine thermostat.


You obviously don't understand the engineering design requirements of automotive engines at all.

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
A perfect example of this is the current military turbine engines.


Nor do you understand how turbine engines work.

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Now there is an idea, I can patent my home thermostat as a light switch, hhmmmmm....


Nor a clue about patent law, apparently.
 
Quote:
When installed backward, the engine thermostat will still function perfectly per design only the coolant flow is now reversed.


The stuff by this poster gets crazier with every post,this one really finishes off any trace of credibility.
 
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