Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple Ice

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People that design, build, and patent thermostat for a living never claim that it controls the temperature but you do for some reason. You seems to avoid all the facts that I have presented and also avoiding my questions. Please answer these questions with respect to car engines and not toilet:

1. If the thermostat is installed backward would it still control the temperature and why not?

2. Why is it that air cool engines (i.e. engines without coolant and radiators such as motorcycle engines) do not have thermostat?

3. Why does engine overheat if the thermostat is controlling the temperature?

4. If I put a thermostat into a boiling pan of water will it control the temperature in the pan?
 
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Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It is also recommended to be used with straight water. That was its real intended purpose to be used in racing with straight water for short periods of time and drained often.


No where does Redline recommend the above. It is your assumption only.

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It can also be used with coolant but WW claims that it breaks waters surface tension any better than the inhibitor pack in anti-freeze does anyway is questionable. WW sort of claims that adding WW to a 50/50 coolant mix makes it conduct heat as well as water. That is doubtful and is not really independently verified.


Where is your proof that Water Wetter does not do what it said? Real world usage by me and others show that they do indeed work as advertised.

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
My whole point is why not get some real inhibitor additves and either add it to straight water or some diluted level of antifreeze maybe 70/30 water/antifreeze like they do in industries where they run engines with straight water.


Where is the proof that real inhibitor additives are better than Water Wetter? Industry standards do not means that they are the best for the engines.
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It is also recommended to be used with straight water. That was its real intended purpose to be used in racing with straight water for short periods of time and drained often.


No where does Redline recommend the above. It is your assumption only.


It is recommended and is used in straight water. there's no point in putting it in coolant that has antifreeze as has been mentioned several times.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It can also be used with coolant but WW claims that it breaks waters surface tension any better than the inhibitor pack in anti-freeze does anyway is questionable. WW sort of claims that adding WW to a 50/50 coolant mix makes it conduct heat as well as water. That is doubtful and is not really independently verified.


Where is your proof that Water Wetter does not do what it said? Real world usage by me and others show that they do indeed work as advertised.


WW has not been independently proven to do what it says. No one needs to prove a negative.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
My whole point is why not get some real inhibitor additves and either add it to straight water or some diluted level of antifreeze maybe 70/30 water/antifreeze like they do in industries where they run engines with straight water.


Where is the proof that real inhibitor additives are better than Water Wetter? Industry standards do not means that they are the best for the engines.


Now you are back to argue that WW is an effectibve inhibitor. It doesn't even claim to meet the minimum standards for corrosion protection. It's akin to you saying , "Here's some motor oil. It meets no standards but its the best according to the manufacturer!" Anyway there's no reasoning with you. If you like WW, fine. I've given some of my reasoning why I wouldn't run it. This is just beating a dead horse now.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It is also recommended to be used with straight water. That was its real intended purpose to be used in racing with straight water for short periods of time and drained often.


No where does Redline recommend the above. It is your assumption only.


It is recommended and is used in straight water. there's no point in putting it in coolant that has antifreeze as has been mentioned several times.



Where did Red Line said "its real intended purpose is to used in racing with straight water for short periods of time and drained often"? It is very funny to me how you seem to make things up as you go since you have no idea what Water Wetter is and how it is used. What part of I and others on this board have found Water Wetter to performed as advertised do you not understand? All you got is a lot of "may be" and "I don't know" and "I doubt it" and the willing to make a wager on something you know nothing about (your own admission).
 
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Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
People that design, build, and patent thermostat for a living never claim that it controls the temperature but you do for some reason. You seems to avoid all the facts that I have presented and also avoiding my questions. Please answer these questions with respect to car engines and not toilet:

1. If the thermostat is installed backward would it still control the temperature and why not?

2. Why is it that air cool engines (i.e. engines without coolant and radiators such as motorcycle engines) do not have thermostat?

3. Why does engine overheat if the thermostat is controlling the temperature?

4. If I put a thermostat into a boiling pan of water will it control the temperature in the pan?


Mate, you are a royal dill.

1) how could it do anything if installed backwards ? Can't sense water temp, and therefore can't provide a controlled opening to allow water to flow through.

2) Ever seen the cooling system of a beetle ?

3) Because thermal loading exceeds the inadequate design of the cooling system.

4) Of course not, it's designed to control the temperature of coolant in a circulating system, not an engine.

OK, while we are discussing stuff, what happens if you put the radiator (YOUR control device) in a vacuum ?

So it's really air that controls an engine's temperature, not radiators, thermostats, water pumps, coolant, or water wetter.
 
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Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
People that design, build, and patent thermostat for a living never claim that it controls the temperature but you do for some reason.


I'd guess that they are misleading everybody by even naming them "thermostat" if that's not the intention of their invention/device.

What do they want these "thermostats" to do ?

Carve the David statue out of marble ?

They'd probably call them an artist or sculptor.

Sit on the mantle piece and hold flowers ?

That would be a vase.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic


1. If the thermostat is installed backward would it still control the temperature and why not?



1) how could it do anything if installed backwards ? Can't sense water temp, and therefore can't provide a controlled opening to allow water to flow through.



Hahahaha, just what I thought. You either don't know how a thermostat operate or don't know where it is located at. Why can't it sense the coolant temperature when it is sitting in it?
 
Yep, that must be it, I don't know squat.

Enjoy your delusions, I shan't be carrying on any further.

BTW, please define "thermostat". Any standard definition will suffice.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
People that design, build, and patent thermostat for a living never claim that it controls the temperature but you do for some reason.


I'd guess that they are misleading everybody by even naming them "thermostat" if that's not the intention of their invention/device.

What do they want these "thermostats" to do ?



A thermostat is a "thermally actuated device" that can route a cooling fluid flow either into the engine or into a radiator depending on a temperature of the cooling flow. It is not misleading if you understand the function of it in an automobile engines.
 
What CONTROLS the temperature of your lounge room ?

you, the thermostat, the evaporator, or the thermal capacity of the ambient ?

You are attributing the thermal capacity of the ambient to the function of the radiator.

Why don't engines freeze at idle in the snowfields ?
 
The problem here is that you equate the automobile engine thermostat to a cistern valve in the toilet tank or a thermostat in a living room. They are not the same nor do they serve the same purpose. With or without a thermostat, a running engine will not freeze while idle in the snowfields. The engine without the thermostat will take a lot longer to warm up but that's about it. Remember, 70% of the energy generated by an auto engine is wasted as heat and this is why engines don't freeze while running.
 
Where you explain that a thermostat is the control element in a cooling system ?

While denying the same ?

Great work.
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Here are some independent tests:

http://www.importtuner.com/reviews/impp_0808_coolant_additives/index.html

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/document.asp?DocID=TECH00010

http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0703_turp_cooling_system_additives/index.html

http://www.jcna.com/library/tech/tech0011.html



I'm not going to waste too much time on this. Magazine articles are hardly independent or an authorative source of technical info. Those test were so bogus anyone can see that. They compared 50/50 coolant to WW with straight water. That's 2 variables and you say no one uses it with straight water. Then the other test was so full of variables. Again they tested 50/50 coolant against WW 70/30 water-to-antifreeze and straight water. The test were ran at different ambient temperatures and the results weren't that impressive anyway.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx


I'm not going to waste too much time on this.


Apparently you are not wasting any time on any proof of your own either. All you do is complain with nothing else to show for. You still have no clue what is the purpose of Water Wetter. By the way, the earth is round.
 
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The variable orifice that the thermostat provides in response to the temperature allows varying amounts of coolant to flow into the radiator (and then release the heat into the environment).

The control loop is responding to temperature.

Just like the "thermostat" in your house controls an electrical signal to your AC to change the cycle of your AC, and the float valve in your cistern controls the level in it.

I guess that you don't use the accelerator pedal to control your speed either, but to change the response of your engine. The control element in your world is the top speed of the car.
 
Control theory does NOT mean that the item affects the process variable in the direct sense.

A boiler pressure controller varies the fuel and air to CONTROL the pressure. The excess oxygen controls vary the fuel and air flow to affect the excess O2.

The computer in your car controls the exhaust O2, by varying the fuel ratio.

That's what control systems do.
 
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