2005 Corolla- Timing chain bad?

[panthermike]

Hey guys,

My girlfriends mom has an 05' Corolla, has around 103,000 miles.

One of the family members is a mechanic that does work on the car from time to time. He performed the 100K service; replaced oil/filter, radiator hoses, trans fluid and coolant.

Anyways; the car has been experiencing a "slow" start issue; sometimes 3-4 seconds to crank over. He told them that the timing chain was "loose" or something to that effect and they might think about replacing it in a while.

I'm no mechanic, I just thought this was odd. I'll surely have my mechanic look at it for a second opinion, but wanted opinions/thoughts on this. I checked online and the chain isn't as pricey as I assumed it would be, but I thought it was uncommon for a chain to need replacing at this mileage.

BTW, only issue is long start time. The car runs great and has had 5K OCI's w/ Dino and synthetic. Looks clean in the valve cover. The car gets 180 mile round trips 2-4 times a month.

Thanks in advance guys.

 

[5sfe91]

it might just have a weak battery - check the charging system and see if it fixes the slow starting.

but you're right about the chain it should be in good shape

 

[mechanicx]

I would check fuel pressure. If the fuel pressure leaks down or doesn'tbuild fast that can cause hard starting.

 

[5sfe91]

if there is a Pep Boys in your area have them check it out for free with this

http://www.pepboys.com/sale_specials/cou...y_installation/

 

[panthermike]

Thanks for the suggestion; battery was our first thought, but it checks out fine. Not sure about the alternator though, the Checker guy claimed it was good too. Not sure how much that little hand held thing tells you though.

 

[The Critic]

In a situation like this, it is best to check for any TSBs.

Does the extended crank occur during a cold start or after a hot soak?

There are two TSBs out for extended crank times on the Corolla: TSB #EG053-06 and #EG044-06.

EG053-06 references an updated fuel pump assembly. Apparently fuel pump pressure was an issue so an updated fuel pump was developed.

EG044-06 refers to an updated software for the ECU. You may want to try this first before replacing the fuel pump.

 

[Bill in Utah]

No way its the timing chain.

My 05 Corolla takes less than a sec (even well below zero) to start. As soon as the engine turns over its started. And it's well past 160k. Original everything except the plugs and oil/filter/coolant.

I'm still on the OEM battery but its coming up to 5 years old. Same with your girlfriends Mom's. Go ahead and replace the battery since its close to time for it. (It does not owe her ANYTHING) Then lets see what comes up.

That would be my first thing.

Bill

 

[crazyoildude]

Its not the timing chain...Period

 

[panthermike]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
No way its the timing chain.

My 05 Corolla takes less than a sec (even well below zero) to start. As soon as the engine turns over its started. And it's well past 160k. Original everything except the plugs and oil/filter/coolant.

I'm still on the OEM battery but its coming up to 5 years old. Same with your girlfriends Mom's. Go ahead and replace the battery since its close to time for it. (It does not own her ANYTHING) Then lets see what comes up.

That would be my first thing.

Bill


It's on it's second battery, which is 2 years old (Arizona heat kills these batteries). The guy at checker said it checks out fine, you think we should change it anyway?

Critic; thanks for those TSB's. I do believe it's after a hot soak. Which would be the reflash TSB, I presume? Wonder how much it would cost out of warranty?

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: panthermike
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
No way its the timing chain.

My 05 Corolla takes less than a sec (even well below zero) to start. As soon as the engine turns over its started. And it's well past 160k. Original everything except the plugs and oil/filter/coolant.

I'm still on the OEM battery but its coming up to 5 years old. Same with your girlfriends Mom's. Go ahead and replace the battery since its close to time for it. (It does not own her ANYTHING) Then lets see what comes up.

That would be my first thing.

Bill


It's on it's second battery, which is 2 years old (Arizona heat kills these batteries). The guy at checker said it checks out fine, you think we should change it anyway?

Critic; thanks for those TSB's. I do believe it's after a hot soak. Which would be the reflash TSB, I presume? Wonder how much it would cost out of warranty?


Yeah, the heat does nail them...

Well you could take it to the dealer and be nice. I'd bet they would reflash it for less than a hour labor (or free with the "marketing" the unbiased "media"

is giving them)

So less than $100.

Swap a battery out of something else and let's see if it changes anything. You are not getting heat soak this time of year.

Bill

 

[panthermike]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: panthermike
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
No way its the timing chain.

My 05 Corolla takes less than a sec (even well below zero) to start. As soon as the engine turns over its started. And it's well past 160k. Original everything except the plugs and oil/filter/coolant.

I'm still on the OEM battery but its coming up to 5 years old. Same with your girlfriends Mom's. Go ahead and replace the battery since its close to time for it. (It does not own her ANYTHING) Then lets see what comes up.

That would be my first thing.

Bill


It's on it's second battery, which is 2 years old (Arizona heat kills these batteries). The guy at checker said it checks out fine, you think we should change it anyway?

Critic; thanks for those TSB's. I do believe it's after a hot soak. Which would be the reflash TSB, I presume? Wonder how much it would cost out of warranty?


Yeah, the heat does nail them...

Well you could take it to the dealer and be nice. I'd bet they would reflash it for less than a hour labor (or free with the "marketing" the unbiased "media"

is giving them)

So less than $100.

Swap a battery out of something else and let's see if it changes anything. You are not getting heat soak this time of year.

Bill


Thanks for the tips Bill, it is about due for a battery anyways. If that doesn't pan out, then off to Toyota she goes.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: panthermike
Thanks for the tips Bill, it is about due for a battery anyways. If that doesn't pan out, then off to Toyota she goes.


I would not bother replacing the battery. If it tests fine on a midtronics tester, then the battery is fine-- you can safely rule it out.

I would bring the vehicle to the dealer with the extended crank complaint and reference the hot-soak TSB. They'll probably charge you one hour labor to diagnose ($120) and flash it at the same time.

 

[Ryan]

Our 06 Corolla always takes a few seconds to start too... not battery related issue, it is not a slow crank. It has done this since we bought it brand new. You just have to crank it for a good several seconds. It takes a while compared to some other cars I have owned in the past.

 

[Bill in Utah]

One thing I thought about;

Our Corollas have the chip in the key. One thing I do is put the key in, turn to run and wait 2-3 seconds and THEN turn the key to start.

If you guys (And Mikes GF's Mom) are putting in the key and turning right away, the anti-thief system has to ID the chip in the key before sending to the ECM the ok to start.

This could take some time to process. My work truck does this sometimes when I'm in a hurry.

Just a thought.

Bill

 

[Gary Allan]

According to autopartswarehouse this thing still has a distributor (I don't know the engine). That makes it super easy to verify the chain condition if it's in question. Simply rotate the engine at the crank and watch for the lack of motion at the distributor.

This may be what the mechanic used to make his assertion. Like others, I too would find it odd for a 5 year/100k engine to need a chain ..but stranger things have happened. It would make ignition and fuel pulse timing somewhat out of sync.

 

[Mau]

did the mechanic give it a tune up? spark plugs and in this case the distributor cap and rotor? (toyota's still using distributor caps and rotors on a 2005? I find that hard to believe)


Also since you do live in an area where there is extreme heat, you might want to check the water level of the battery and top it up with distilled water. Even if the battery is low maintenance or maintenance free, they allow you to top up the water.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
One thing I thought about;

Our Corollas have the chip in the key. One thing I do is put the key in, turn to run and wait 2-3 seconds and THEN turn the key to start.

If you guys (And Mikes GF's Mom) are putting in the key and turning right away, the anti-thief system has to ID the chip in the key before sending to the ECM the ok to start.

This could take some time to process. My work truck does this sometimes when I'm in a hurry.

Just a thought.

Bill


I have never had that happen to me. Sticking the key in and then turning it has never resulted in a delay from my experience.

Again, take it to the dealer and have them diagnose the problem. It'll cost you about $120 but will be faster and cheaper than throwing parts at it.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
According to autopartswarehouse this thing still has a distributor (I don't know the engine). That makes it super easy to verify the chain condition if it's in question. Simply rotate the engine at the crank and watch for the lack of motion at the distributor.

This may be what the mechanic used to make his assertion. Like others, I too would find it odd for a 5 year/100k engine to need a chain ..but stranger things have happened. It would make ignition and fuel pulse timing somewhat out of sync.

Ummm, the 1ZZ-FE was a clean sheet design with NO distributor unlike the 7A-FE it replaced. I'd check the plugs and fuel pressure, as Toyotas are fairly good at letting you know of fuel pump issues before the pump dies.

 

[panthermike]

Thanks for the replies everyone, the plugs are NGK iridiums replaced at 90,000, so they should be fine. I never thought about checking the battery water level, I'll have to do that.

If simple/free things don't solve the issue, then it's in to Toyota. It's a matter of time to look at it though. If it needs to be taken in, I'll have to convince her of that as well.

Bill, I will tell her to try the key method, worth a try.

 

[panthermike]

Just thought I'd add this in there; I spoke with her about the issue. She says she notices it when starting the car in the morning.

I haven't had time to look at anything, don't know if that tid bit of knowledge helps any?