Toyota red long life & pink super long life same?

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There is two Toyota coolants available, "red" long life concentrate (I'll call it "red") and pink super long life (I'll call it pink).

I think red coolant was factory-filled in Toyotas since '87-'88'. My dad bought a brand new '88 Toyota pick up with the 22RE that had red coolant. As an aside, it also had a downflow brass radiator that eventually leaked at the top header seem and I replaced the radiator. I also replaced the red with American green after that. No other coolant problemns were seen.

I think the Toyota red was an HOAT and probably one of the first. I think it was phosphated and contained an organic acid, sodium benzoate and/or sodium sebacate.

I'm not sure when Toyota started using the pink. But it's only avaliable in premix, and maybe that's why it looks pink because it's diluted and not because it's really dyed much differently to distinguish it. Anyway the dye color doesn't mean the formula is different. I think pink is also a HOAT and probably the same formula as red, phosphate and the OAT sodium benzoate.

Pink does claim a longer life for the factory-fill, ~10years/100k miles but after changing ~5 years/60K miles. And red I think had the claim of 5year/60K miles. So both we're extended life coolant vs. green.

Most of the Japanese OE coolants are the same with few exceptions, and are thought to be supplied by the Japanese anti-freeze manufacture CCI. Also they don't make it readily available to the aftermarket. So Honda type 2, Toyota red and pink, etc are probably all very similar and compatible with most all Japanese vehicles and also non-Japanse vehicles.

So bottomline is I think Toyota red is really just the concentrated version of the pink. If you can find red at a dealer for a good price, it might be a very good coolant to use in a lot of different applications.
 
Toyota pink factory fill 10years/1600000kms service drain/refill every 80000kms.Toyota Techline or bulletin doesn't say any thing about the time on service drain/refill.
Toyota Red 2years/40000kms.
 
If some one had a bottle of red and pink, you might see if the read list "organic inhibitors". Different sources say different things about the service interval for the red, but even Zerex green is claiming up to 5 years/50K now. I'm not so sure they are not the same.
 
Originally Posted By: toyota62
Toyota pink factory fill 10years/1600000kms service drain/refill every 80000kms.Toyota Techline or bulletin doesn't say any thing about the time on service drain/refill.
Toyota Red 2years/40000kms.


If the red has a 2/30k mile service life that would indicate it does not contain OAT. I read somewhere that it does. I'm trying to verify if that's correct or not. I was considering the possibility the red has a lower service life because it might be potentially mixed with tap water, although that wouldn't explain why red FF is only 2 years.
 
It's my understanding that the red and pink are the same coolant, except that the pink is pre-mixed 50/50 for someone who wants to work with pre-mix( topping off, etc ), and the red is full strength for someone who wants to make a custom blend ( a ratio other than 50/50 ). I don't think you'd ever want to use the red at full strength.
 
I don't believe they are the same. My understanding is the pink is a super long life 5yr/60k coolant where the red is 2yr/30k coolant. Thus the red Long Life v pink Super Long Life.

That said, both are a ripoff. The red LL is just a regular rip off where the premix only Super Long Life is a super ripoff for half water coolant.

Now if they were the same, Toyota would have a super scam going, calling half water coolant, Super Long Life and charging more (in my area) than the full strength Long Life.
 
Yeah you have to dilute concentrate. To be honest I got the info that red long life has OATs in its ingredient list and has a claimed life of up to 50K miles from a Toyota/Lexus forum. I don't have the link handy right now. The info might not be correct.

I now think the red only has a claim of 2 years/30K miles and that would suggest it does not have an OAT. If someone had some Toyota long life and it lists organic acid in the ingredients, then putting recommend service life aside, I'd bet it is the same formula as the pink super LL.
 
Even though the coolant is long life is there a pump lubricant additive you install periodically? Our Wp started leaking on our 05 Rav 4 w/ only 58K miles on it, and I want to prevent this on the Yaris. I hear early WP failure on toyotas is not uncommon at all.
 
I don't know of any waterpump lubricants that would be recommended to add to the coolant. Antifreeze adds some lubrication effect and has additives that lubricate the pump seal. Asians don't want anti-freeze with silicates and avoid them to protect the pump seal. They use phosphate which to a lesser degree I think can also be some what abrasive.

It's debatable that silicates really shorten water pump life,and a lot of Japanese cars have been filled with silicated green and G-05. But for after market non-silicate formula choices mostly only leaves Peak Global barring Dexcool and Zerex asian formula.

Your Rav 4 should've came with super long life. Is that what it has only used?
 
Toyota Red Long Life ingredients from jug: Ethylene Glycol(107-21-1),Diethylene Glycol(111-46-6) Water(7732-18-5) Orangic Acid Salt(532-32-1) Hydrated Inorganic Salt(1310-58-3).

If
they are the same, then, as said, Toyota has great scam going. To change the name, recommend twice the life, with half the concentration of coolant, would be a great flim flam.
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Toyota Red Long Life ingredients from jug: Ethylene Glycol(107-21-1),Diethylene Glycol(111-46-6) Water(7732-18-5) Orangic Acid Salt(532-32-1) Hydrated Inorganic Salt(1310-58-3).

If
they are the same, then, as said, Toyota has great scam going. To change the name, recommend twice the life, with half the concentration of coolant, would be a great flim flam.


Where did you find the ingredient list? "Orangic Acid Salt(532-32-1)" means OAT and is probably the same sodium benzoate in pink super long life. I don't know if red long life always had an OAT, but his makes it look like red and pink are probably the same formula.

Plus Toyota says the red and pink are compatible and backwards compatible. It'd be simple for them to just source one coolant formula, one undiluted and one premixed.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Toyota Red Long Life ingredients from jug: Ethylene Glycol(107-21-1),Diethylene Glycol(111-46-6) Water(7732-18-5) Orangic Acid Salt(532-32-1) Hydrated Inorganic Salt(1310-58-3).

If
they are the same, then, as said, Toyota has great scam going. To change the name, recommend twice the life, with half the concentration of coolant, would be a great flim flam.


Where did you find the ingredient list? "Orangic Acid Salt(532-32-1)" means OAT and is probably the same sodium benzoate in pink super long life. I don't know if red long life always had an OAT, but his makes it look like red and pink are probably the same formula.

Plus Toyota says the red and pink are compatible and backwards compatible. It'd be simple for them to just source one coolant formula, one undiluted and one premixed.
Still doesn't explain the extended recommendation for the premix pink, and the name change to Super Long Life. IMO, they may have similar ingedients, but it would be unethical at the least to imply that the pink will last twice as long as the red full strength with just the addition of water to the ingredients . And, I wouldn't buy any assumption saying it is some kind of special water.
whistle.gif


In any case, the full strength red is just less of a rip off than the premix pink.
 
I missed that you had a jug. Well I guess the info I read on the Toyota forum about red having OAT is true. Yeah, I can't see any difference in pink and red's formula. If you add distilled water to the red it should last as long as pink in reality, probably even if you added decent tap water that had low solutes.

It sure looks like they are just diluting the red with de-ionized/distilled water and calling it pink super life coolant with a longer service life.
 
I dont know if they are the same or not, but I just drained the factory fill on my 2003 Tundra and it came out red, not pink. Almost like grape juice, not like the fluorescent pink stuff. Even well diluted red does not look much like the pink. That said, its just color, doesnt mean they arent exactly the same.
 
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I think '03 was just before the transition to pink SLLC. Yeah, the dye may be different but that doesn't mean the inhibitor formula is different. On the other hand, it might be but based on the ingredients list they appear to bvery similar or the same.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
"Orangic Acid Salt(532-32-1)" means OAT and is probably the same sodium benzoate in pink super long life.

Where did you find that Super Long Life contains sodium benzoate? I thought Super Long Life was only using sebacate.
 
Originally Posted By: Gradient
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
"Orangic Acid Salt(532-32-1)" means OAT and is probably the same sodium benzoate in pink super long life.

Where did you find that Super Long Life contains sodium benzoate? I thought Super Long Life was only using sebacate.


This is a good question you raised. Sayjac, was listing the ingredients for LL not SLL. Organic Acid Salt(532-32-1) is sodium benzoate: chemical b0ok. As an aside, the ingredient list for LL didn't list phosphate. I have also heard that SLL contains sebacate (and phospate too), and this would mean it has a different OAT than LL. But sebacate is troubling as it may be a plasticizer and a carboxylic acid somewhat related to 2EHA: sebacate. Maybe this is why Japanese cars work good with Dexcool lol?

What we need now is the ingredients list for SLL too. I'm starting to not like OAT all together.
 
I did some searching and I think American green contained benzoate an OAT as does G-05. Benzoate doesn't give the long life of the other OAT's but is well proven to not be a plasticizer like 2EHA and possibly sebacate, and does not gum up with air.

Maybe Toyota pink added sebacate to increase service life.

American green also contained borate and silicate. Japanese do not like either but silicates are very effective at protecting aluminum but just don't have a long life.

What I'm getting at is while I like the idea of an OAT like Peak Global and the potential of having a longer life, I'm not sure if I trust sebacate (a plasticizer) in an application that wasn't OEM FF. How Toyota can back spec pink, I'm not sure.

American Green and G-05 are similar and both well proven. G-05 might need to be changed every 3-4 years, but at least there's no real likelihood it will eat gaskets or sludge.

Here's a link that has some interesting points:

merecedes anti-freeze

Quote:
You don’t have to be a chemist to understand
the rust/corrosion inhibitor packages. All you
should do is note the ingredients, see that they
differ and realize why Mercedes-Benz antifreeze
protection mechanism truly is different,
and the reasons why.
“Conventional green”: The inhibitors are
sodium silicate and phosphate, both proven
protectors for aluminum, plus benzoate and
borate (broad-range metal protection) and a “triazole,”
one of a group of inhibitors that protect
copper-brass, plus an inhibitor that protects
cast-iron.
“Japanese” green or red “conventional”: It
typically contains phosphates and benzoate, a
triazole; plus molybdate (cast-iron protection)
and nitrate (a specific type of aluminum protection).
It contains no silicate.
Read the backs of these two containers of
coolant. Note the Mercedes-Benz coolant contains
forms of borate (sodium tetraborate)
and benzoate (sodium benzoate) as well as
silicates. The other anti-freeze contains only
organic acids (2-EHA and neo-decanoate).
Section of a Mercedes-Benz maintenance
chart. Note that the “replace coolant” interval
is 15 years or approximately 143,000 miles.
The mileage interval is as high as 150,000
miles on some vehicles with the long-life recommendation,
based on the scheduled maintenance
interval.

Organic acid technology/extended life
coolants (called “OATs”): Although benzoate is
an organic acid, it is not used in an exclusive
package with other organic acids in an OAT. The
organic acids used in American anti-freezes
include one 2-EHA, among others (such as
sebacate and neo-decanoate). They contain no
silicates and no phosphates. Japanese OAT antifreezes
do not use 2-EHA but they do contain
phosphate. Note: 2-EHA (2-ethylhexanoic acid)
is a “plasticizer,” which means it softens plastics.
Gaskets are made with plastic and there
have been laboratory tests reported by other
manufacturers, that raise concerns about
coolant-sealing gasket leakage with 2-EHA.
Mercedes-Benz type hybrid: Originally
developed to work well with both diesels and
gasoline engines, this anti-freeze uses a low-silicate
formula. It also contains benzoate and
borate, plus benzo-triazole for copper-brass protection,
nitrate and nitrite (protects cast-iron
liners in diesels). It was demonstrated to be a
robust formula that would work for extended
intervals,
 
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Originally Posted By: sayjac
Toyota Red Long Life ingredients from jug: Ethylene Glycol(107-21-1),Diethylene Glycol(111-46-6) Water(7732-18-5) Orangic Acid Salt(532-32-1) Hydrated Inorganic Salt(1310-58-3).

If
they are the same, then, as said, Toyota has great scam going. To change the name, recommend twice the life, with half the concentration of coolant, would be a great flim flam.


Here are the ingredients from the back of a gallon jug of the Toyota Super Long Life Antifreeze/coolant ( Pink ). Quoted your post so that others could easily compare.

Water (7732-18-5), Ethylene Glycol (107-21-1), Diethylene Glycol (111-46-6), Sebacic Acid (111-20-6), Potassium Hydroxide (1310-58-3).
 
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