Oil Analysis Marvel Mystery Oil

[wildjyoung]

I was having weird results with my engine oil analysis and was using Marvel Mystery Oil. To eliminate a variable, Blackstone offered to run a free analysis on MMO if I sent them a sample. I did and subsequently received the results. If someone can tell me how to post I will.

Basically, the only thing it had in it (via their analysis) is phosphorus. The viscosity was 2.6 cSt. However, what concerned me most was the flashpoint of 160 degrees Fahrenheit. Basically, when added to oil this is just evaporating at operating temperature.

So I have come to the conclusion that MMO is fantastic for gas. However, I am only going to run it in my oil on occasion for a few hundred miles before an oil change to "clean things up." I just do not feel it is good to run all of the time with a low flash point and so many solvents.

Does anyone have any thoughts?

 

[paulo57509]

I'm no chemist, but I would think that the MMO flash point is affected by mixing with engine oil.

 

[wildjyoung]

Your most likely right but it will definitely decrease the overall flash point. I do still believe there will be lots of flashing as even by diluting it with oil the individual volatiles will still flash off.

 

[m37charlie]

Flash point is the temp at which a burning match held near the surface of the liquid will ignite a fire. It correlates well with vapor pressure. The boiling point is always somewhat higher.
Since the flash point is slightly below the temp of a typical oil pain at operating temp, it will evaporate like crazy at running temps and go out the crankcase breather. Contributing hydrocarbons to smog in the jurisdiction of CARB (kill!!!).
For reference, #2 diesel has a flash point of ~+125F. It will evaporate from an oil pan over a long run.

Charlie

 

[fsskier]

I have looked long and hard for any evidence that MMO has any value in motor oil...... except perhaps the placebo effect.
The varied claims.....

good fogging oil
reduces wear
good cleaner
protects upper cylinder
better gas mileage
thinner, helps cold starting
increases oil pressure
engine got quiet
engine got noisy
easily 5 more if you look..

Contradictory results indicate that the improvement is in the eye of the beholder.

One that a quick search showed includes the statement: "My car has reached 200K and still runs well - I attribute this
to MMO"

So, let me add my equally scientific observation: "My two cars, including an extreme use tow vehicle, have now reached 300K miles, still running like new, are clean inside,burn no oil, etc."

I attribute this to having never contaminated my oil with any additives!

Probably one gobazillion hours have gone in to determining the ideal amount of detergents, dispersants, etc in your GF4 oil, if more made things better it would likely be in the GF4 requirements!

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: fsskier
I have looked long and hard for any evidence that MMO has any value in motor oil...... except perhaps the placebo effect.
The varied claims.....

good fogging oil
reduces wear
good cleaner
protects upper cylinder
better gas mileage
thinner, helps cold starting
increases oil pressure
engine got quiet
engine got noisy
easily 5 more if you look..

Contradictory results indicate that the improvement is in the eye of the beholder.

One that a quick search showed includes the statement: "My car has reached 200K and still runs well - I attribute this
to MMO"

So, let me add my equally scientific observation: "My two cars, including an extreme use tow vehicle, have now reached 300K miles, still running like new, are clean inside,burn no oil, etc."

I attribute this to having never contaminated my oil with any additives!

Probably one gobazillion hours have gone in to determining the ideal amount of detergents, dispersants, etc in your GF4 oil, if more made things better it would likely be in the GF4 requirements!


Well said, and I agree completely.

 

[jcwit]

Well if it only takes me $3.00 a quart to make me feel good, its worth it.

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: jcwit
Well if it only takes me $3.00 a quart to make me feel good, its worth it.


To quote PT Barnum.....oh, nevermind

 

[wildjyoung]

I would now agree! At first I thought that after reading so many positive comments that it is actually good stuff. However after looking at the analysis and thinking about it, it defies common sense. If it was so good why would car manufacturers not add it to every car?

First off, I will say that I think it is probably excellent for gas and including into an engine flushing procedure (IF NEEDED). The phosphorus alone should help with valve, piston, and ring wear.

 

[m37charlie]

Originally Posted By: wildjyoung
The phosphorus alone should help with valve, piston, and ring wear.



If the P was What were the P and Zn concentrations?

Charlie

 

[wildjyoung]

P was at 634 PPM, so you are right, in the crankcase it would actually dilute the Phosphorus. It seems like it would still help with upper cylinder wear since standard oil does not get up there.

I am really struggling to see the benefit in MMO. It seems people may hear improvements but perhaps they have so much sludge it is simply washing away or they are using to thick of oil in the first place so that engine "sounds smoother" due to decreased oil viscosity that should have been as thin in the first place.

 

[fsskier]

Originally Posted By: jcwit
Well if it only takes me $3.00 a quart to make me feel good, its worth it.

Hey, I just discovered a fuel additive that is actually giving me 12 percent better gas mileage every tank!!!!!!

I was about to put a qt of MMO in my tank at a cost of 3 bucks per can when I decided to.....

put in 1.2 gallons more gas - exactly 3 bucks worth. Now, the old Escort commuter car gets filled every week - every 350 miles.... and its now taking 1.2 gallons less each week!!!

Tell everyone, this is great!!! And, no container to keep in my trunk or recycle!!

 

[mechtech2]

I tend to agree with only using MMO in the oil for special circumstances here and there - cleaning or cold weather. I DO have some in my crankcase right now, for winter. I am glad I did for cold starting and some cleaning of the ring area.

As to 'boiling off':
I have noticed no extra condensation in my catch can in the PCV system. Yes, there is more watery stuff in winter, but that is not oil. And the oil level is not going down.
How bad can it therefore be?

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Well if it only takes me $3.00 a quart to make me feel good, its worth it.


To quote PT Barnum.....oh, nevermind

Well alot of folks spend an awful lot more than that to feel good. Otherwise Nevada would be broke!

 

[Mystic]

I have always not cared too much for the idea of putting solvents into engine oil. I was much more willing to put MMO into gasoline than into oil. It may affect oil viscosity for one thing. And if there are harmful byproducts (such as acid forming as breakdown products) I certainly don't think that would be good in an engine. And apparently there are some clorinated hydrocarbons in this product and I don't like to be around stuff like that.

For these reasons I preferred Auto-RX. It seemed to work for me. But Auto-RX is being rejected by many here.

I personally am kind of interested in checking out some other possible routes. For example, there are some non-solvent alternatives such as having the engine cleaned with a non-solvent process at a auto repair facility or using a non-solvent product like Lubegard Engine Flush. And there are motor oils that are supposed to be able to clean like Mobil 1 HM oil. Some people here have said that Pennzoil Platinum seems to clean well.

And if there are any risks involved in using a product (engine damage or risk to me) I would prefer just to use a good brand of motor oil with reasonable OCIs. Nobody HAS to use any of these engine cleaners. I would like to have available a proven and safe engine cleaner but until such a product comes along I can live with just oil changes.

 

[fsskier]

What are you trying to flush?? Except for a few sludge generating motors.. most stay clean to very clean inside. I have not had stuck rings on any car ever, even the early VI loaded 10W40's only caused about 5 percent of motors to fail according to research at that time.

Sticky lifters (hydraulic) was a very common problem in the 1950's and early 60's but I doubt many people have any idea what the word even means any more.

These issues have been mostly addressed by modern motor oil formulation.

Now, if I had one cylinder down to half in compression, and I knew that some compromised oil events had occurred.... maybe I would try a cleaner. Even then would you not pour it into the bad cylinder and let it set and soak the rings overnight?

I suspect that a real cleaner would only attempt to do one thing..... a decarbonizer for rings or a varnish &gum remover for lifters, a manufacturer approved cleaner for injector deposits like Techron.... do not claim to fix everything, but just one thing.

The major outboard manufacturers still sell approved decarbonizers for 2 strokes, but now radically reduced oil consumption now seems to have eliminated much need for them.

 

[fsskier]

Sticky Lifters, in the 50's....

OK, sorry to overload this thread but.... certainly a good example of cleaners/improvements that are now in your oil

Our 55 Chevrolet was very typical of cars at the time. Hydraulic lifters had come into use, oils were not up to the challenge yet.
One or more lifters would stick in the partially collapsed position, resulting in about .020 valve lash and a constant clickety clack that would make a diesel owner envious.

This would usually happen after a quick run to redline, when the oil was ready to be changed - about 2 k miles. Then, they would do it nearly every time, taking maybe 5 minutes to return to normal when sedate driving patterns returned.

Flip in an oil change, wow, rod the devil out of it, no problems for 1,000 miles.... then the problem slowly returned until by 2,000 miles it happened pretty much every time. DO NOT bring dads car home clattering, he KNOWS what causes it.
(My 41 Plymouth had proper solid lifters in it of course you can rod it endlessly without evidence emerging)

This happened repeatedly to just about every car at that time, how often does it happen to you now??? Never???

Yup, the stuff you need is already in there!!!

 

[postjeeprcr]

Originally Posted By: wildjyoung
Your most likely right but it will definitely decrease the overall flash point. I do still believe there will be lots of flashing as even by diluting it with oil the individual volatiles will still flash off.


Your proof that it will definitely flash off is where? I do not use so I do not know how it works but I do not like statements not backed up with fact, only opinion made to sound like fact.

 

[ionbeam22]

Originally Posted By: m37charlie

Since the flash point is slightly below the temp of a typical oil pain at operating temp, it will evaporate like crazy at running temps and go out the crankcase breather.


The flashpoint isn't that interesting. For example MMO is known to be a mixture of solvents and heavier oils. The solvents will flash off, and the heavier oils wont.

If this fascination with MMO continues, me thinks we should start a collection to have a sample of this stuff sent off to a credible analytical laboratory for a GC-MS and Atomic Absorption analysis.

 

[Cmarti]

I hate when people use facts to ruin any unsupported hope I have

OK wiseguys, is there any value as a fuel stabilizer, UCL and preventing formation of gum/goo in small carbs, intakes and engines?
It is cheaper than stabil or seafoam....and it smells better.