Not nit picking but Amsoil sure does entice their website on the Amsoil Saber Professional 2 cycle oil as being the all in one 100:1 ratio 2 cycle oil. Nothing against the product personally BUT why all the hype and when the label states for NORMAL USAGE>>>Home usage non professional. Why doesn't Amsoil state for SEVERE SERVICE as in their synthetic oil?
Who uses Amsoil Saber at 100:1?
- Thread starter tom slick
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Mamala Bay
The 100:1 is not for hard commercial usage...it clearly states it on the label for Normal Usage.
I kind of disagree with that.
I think Saber is targeted precisely to the commercial user (it even has "Pro" in the product name). What percentage of "home" users use enough pre-mix per year to be willing to pay a premium to cut the oil in half? You'd have to use a lot of two-stroke lube for the financials to work out positively for Saber.
Commercial users rack up way more hours than home users but, aside from having equipment tossed around in a trailer by employees who don't actually own it, I'm not sure that the use is any harder, hour for hour, than home use. If we assume that the engine designer included adequate fin/fan cooling and that the commercial operator isn't neglecting maintenance any more than a home user would, it's probably better for the equipment to always be warm and running fresh fuel.
I use Saber myself because it appears to be a great product not because it would save me money to run 100:1. FWIW, I run 50:1 as recommended by the engine manufacturers.
The 100:1 is not for hard commercial usage...it clearly states it on the label for Normal Usage.
I kind of disagree with that.
I think Saber is targeted precisely to the commercial user (it even has "Pro" in the product name). What percentage of "home" users use enough pre-mix per year to be willing to pay a premium to cut the oil in half? You'd have to use a lot of two-stroke lube for the financials to work out positively for Saber.
Commercial users rack up way more hours than home users but, aside from having equipment tossed around in a trailer by employees who don't actually own it, I'm not sure that the use is any harder, hour for hour, than home use. If we assume that the engine designer included adequate fin/fan cooling and that the commercial operator isn't neglecting maintenance any more than a home user would, it's probably better for the equipment to always be warm and running fresh fuel.
I use Saber myself because it appears to be a great product not because it would save me money to run 100:1. FWIW, I run 50:1 as recommended by the engine manufacturers.
I have no issue with the oil itself as I've stated it's one of the better ones on the market.
For example would using at 80:1 be considered non normal usage for professional usage when the manual recommends 50:1 . Cost wise it's not too bad, but I'll pay some for performance with less plug fouling and easier cleaning.
For example would using at 80:1 be considered non normal usage for professional usage when the manual recommends 50:1 . Cost wise it's not too bad, but I'll pay some for performance with less plug fouling and easier cleaning.
Originally Posted By: Mamala Bay
I have no issue with the oil itself as I've stated it's one of the better ones on the market.
For example would using at 80:1 be considered non normal usage for professional usage when the manual recommends 50:1 . Cost wise it's not too bad, but I'll pay some for performance with less plug fouling and easier cleaning.
My "pay a premium" comment was meant in this way:
The "spin" on the Saber product page is about using less oil and saving cost. How many home owners spend enough on two-stroke oil to see a payoff from buying more expensive oil just to mix less of it? If a typical home owner had trouble making ends meet because of mixing two-stroke oil, they'd just go out and buy the least expensive oil out there - not the most expensive which mixes at a different ratio and eventually pays off in sufficient quantity.
I also buy Saber because it's a better product, even though it comes at a premiumm but because I only use 2-3 teaspoons of it per year (sad, I know) I could care less about using less of it.
On my "hour for hour" wear comments. What's the difference between a commercial lawn guy running a blower at speed and Joe Homeowner running a blower at speed? Nothing. The commercial guy definitely does it more hours per day/year but all that means is that the commercial unit is far more likely to be warmed up properly and burning fresh fuel than the homeowner's unit. The homeowner's unit is likely always warming up because the average jobs are that much smaller. Again, if we presume that the engine was designed properly, that blower ought to be able to keep itself running properly for an entire tank of fuel non-stop regardless of amateur or professional use. The other ways professional gear is abused (tossed into trailers, dropped on the ground, scratches, scuffs) have nothing to do with the pre-mix oil.
The debate on ratio has a lot of different sides which have been argued here before. The engine specs are probably conservative and based on the user running the worst [censored] oil out there, just like "change your oil every 3,000mi" mantra.
Along the same lines, specs on old equipment are based on inferior technology oil and accompanying standards. Some gear specs 16:1 which is crazy on today's oils. Similar "issues" when discussing engine oils for 30-40 year old vehicles calling for "straight 30" - it doesn't necessarily strictly apply any more - get a 15W40 HDEO w/ZDDP and call it a day. If one altered the oil ratio from 16:1 to 50:1, you would need to make appropriate carb adjustments to run properly, of course.
So, if one buys in to the logic used in the past two paragraphs I could see how a particularly superior oil could be run at even lower ratios like 80:1 and 100:1 and actually work. The cheapest oils could be more than half solvent just to keep things moving which isn't required by the most expensive oils, for instance, so you actually have the same amount of "lubricant" at a lower ratio. This wouldn't be a good idea if your gear is still under warranty, in my opinion.
My two-stroke is fairly recent (2003) and specs 50:1. I'm comfortable playing it safe with 50:1 since there's really no upside for me to change. I've read accounts from a number of people running 80:1 and 100:1, homeowner and professional, and everyone seems to claim no problem. I've seen an article comparing different lubricants and ratios posted here but there were some flaws in their method - they were trying mixtures from 8:1 to 100:1 without adjusting the carb and then drawing conclusions based on deposits and operation. Kind of disappointing considering the amount of effort.
I have no issue with the oil itself as I've stated it's one of the better ones on the market.
For example would using at 80:1 be considered non normal usage for professional usage when the manual recommends 50:1 . Cost wise it's not too bad, but I'll pay some for performance with less plug fouling and easier cleaning.
My "pay a premium" comment was meant in this way:
The "spin" on the Saber product page is about using less oil and saving cost. How many home owners spend enough on two-stroke oil to see a payoff from buying more expensive oil just to mix less of it? If a typical home owner had trouble making ends meet because of mixing two-stroke oil, they'd just go out and buy the least expensive oil out there - not the most expensive which mixes at a different ratio and eventually pays off in sufficient quantity.
I also buy Saber because it's a better product, even though it comes at a premiumm but because I only use 2-3 teaspoons of it per year (sad, I know) I could care less about using less of it.
On my "hour for hour" wear comments. What's the difference between a commercial lawn guy running a blower at speed and Joe Homeowner running a blower at speed? Nothing. The commercial guy definitely does it more hours per day/year but all that means is that the commercial unit is far more likely to be warmed up properly and burning fresh fuel than the homeowner's unit. The homeowner's unit is likely always warming up because the average jobs are that much smaller. Again, if we presume that the engine was designed properly, that blower ought to be able to keep itself running properly for an entire tank of fuel non-stop regardless of amateur or professional use. The other ways professional gear is abused (tossed into trailers, dropped on the ground, scratches, scuffs) have nothing to do with the pre-mix oil.
The debate on ratio has a lot of different sides which have been argued here before. The engine specs are probably conservative and based on the user running the worst [censored] oil out there, just like "change your oil every 3,000mi" mantra.
Along the same lines, specs on old equipment are based on inferior technology oil and accompanying standards. Some gear specs 16:1 which is crazy on today's oils. Similar "issues" when discussing engine oils for 30-40 year old vehicles calling for "straight 30" - it doesn't necessarily strictly apply any more - get a 15W40 HDEO w/ZDDP and call it a day. If one altered the oil ratio from 16:1 to 50:1, you would need to make appropriate carb adjustments to run properly, of course.
So, if one buys in to the logic used in the past two paragraphs I could see how a particularly superior oil could be run at even lower ratios like 80:1 and 100:1 and actually work. The cheapest oils could be more than half solvent just to keep things moving which isn't required by the most expensive oils, for instance, so you actually have the same amount of "lubricant" at a lower ratio. This wouldn't be a good idea if your gear is still under warranty, in my opinion.
My two-stroke is fairly recent (2003) and specs 50:1. I'm comfortable playing it safe with 50:1 since there's really no upside for me to change. I've read accounts from a number of people running 80:1 and 100:1, homeowner and professional, and everyone seems to claim no problem. I've seen an article comparing different lubricants and ratios posted here but there were some flaws in their method - they were trying mixtures from 8:1 to 100:1 without adjusting the carb and then drawing conclusions based on deposits and operation. Kind of disappointing considering the amount of effort.
WHen i used a quart of saber pro at 50-1 for my chainsaws and weed trimmers, the only time the engines would barely smoke was when they were first started. Then after they warmed up, they ran smoke free at 50-1. I also made sure the carbs were adjusted properly too.
You don't need expensive synthetic two cycle oil to burn smoke free. I have numerous two stroke engines, some of them 35 years old. I use Canadian Tire brand two stroke oil in all of my equipment. The older engines smoke pretty good at start up. However, once warmed up, they hardly smoke at all.
From my experience, you can buy the most expensive two stroke oil in the world and mix it as thin as you like. Fact of the matter is that the engine requires a certain degree of oil being circulated through it to lube critical areas. Mixing it too thin (premium oil or not) will not do your engine any good. Run the correct ratio. Your engine will appreciate it.
From my experience, you can buy the most expensive two stroke oil in the world and mix it as thin as you like. Fact of the matter is that the engine requires a certain degree of oil being circulated through it to lube critical areas. Mixing it too thin (premium oil or not) will not do your engine any good. Run the correct ratio. Your engine will appreciate it.
We usually use arctic blue oil and haven't had any engine seizure yet.
For what's it worth the Shindaiwa trimmer with 7,000+ hours used OEM Shindaiwa synthetic blend 2 cycle oil. Trimmer was purchased in 1995. Ratio as by manual spec at 50:1.
Equipment was maintained daily to a degree in regards to fuel, proper cleaning and cared for. This is on a commercial level.
Maintaining the equipment comes first no doubt regardless of what 2 cycle oil is used.
Equipment was maintained daily to a degree in regards to fuel, proper cleaning and cared for. This is on a commercial level.
Maintaining the equipment comes first no doubt regardless of what 2 cycle oil is used.
Originally Posted By: Mamala Bay
For what's it worth the Shindaiwa trimmer with 7,000+ hours used OEM Shindaiwa synthetic blend 2 cycle oil. Trimmer was purchased in 1995. Ratio as by manual spec at 50:1.
Equipment was maintained daily to a degree in regards to fuel, proper cleaning and cared for. This is on a commercial level.
Maintaining the equipment comes first no doubt regardless of what 2 cycle oil is used.
7000 hours! That is truly impressive for a small, high revving, hard working two cycle engine. Excellent!
For what's it worth the Shindaiwa trimmer with 7,000+ hours used OEM Shindaiwa synthetic blend 2 cycle oil. Trimmer was purchased in 1995. Ratio as by manual spec at 50:1.
Equipment was maintained daily to a degree in regards to fuel, proper cleaning and cared for. This is on a commercial level.
Maintaining the equipment comes first no doubt regardless of what 2 cycle oil is used.
7000 hours! That is truly impressive for a small, high revving, hard working two cycle engine. Excellent!
How did you arrive at 7k hours? Hour meter or daily log?
The trimmer is used 2+ hours 7 days a week all season. Unless there is heavy rainfall it stays stored.
It's an estimate. Ok the trimmer has at least 5,000 hours that I know of.
It's an estimate. Ok the trimmer has at least 5,000 hours that I know of.
Here's some testimonials that mirrors the Shindaiwa's products that's being used.
Mamala,
Just so you know, I wasn't calling out your honesty. I have no problem whatsoever believing that several thousand hours can be racked up on OPE in that time span. I was simply curious if you put an hour meter on one in what I assume is a fleet.
Just so you know, I wasn't calling out your honesty. I have no problem whatsoever believing that several thousand hours can be racked up on OPE in that time span. I was simply curious if you put an hour meter on one in what I assume is a fleet.
The AMSOIL Saber Professional 2-Cycle Oil Viscosity @ 100°C is 13.5 which is a 40 wt.
The Shindaiwa at 50:1 Viscosity @ 100°C is 9.3. This was used before the Shindaiwa One 50:1 came out.
The Shindaiwa One 50:1 with a fuel stabilizer Viscosity @ 100°C is 7.5 a 20 wt.
Amsoil looks to be a heavier oil.
The Shindaiwa at 50:1 Viscosity @ 100°C is 9.3. This was used before the Shindaiwa One 50:1 came out.
The Shindaiwa One 50:1 with a fuel stabilizer Viscosity @ 100°C is 7.5 a 20 wt.
Amsoil looks to be a heavier oil.
If Amsoil says use it 100:1 use it at that. Normal for them is severe anyway. They test their oil like you wouldn't believe. If they say 100:1 They are sure you won't blow a motor. If 100:1 was too lean they would call it 80:1 and it would still sell well. The mason down the road told me about saber. He has never blown a motor yet and says he has been using it for 12 years every day. If he never blew a motor in 12 years at 100:1 it works at 100:1 When it comes to oil people just don't have any trust in technology at all.
Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (JASO
JASO FA – original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
JASO FB – increased lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FA
JASO FC – lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.
JASO FD - same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.
Amsoil is JASO-FD rated.
Shindiawa One JASO-FD rated.
Motors will not blow if Amsoil recommends normal service at 100:1 if Amsoil states it on their label. I have no experience with the Saber 100:1 on a hard commercial level...but have seen an improvement with the Shin One 2 cycle oil versus their older mineral base 2cycle oil. Amsoil needs to state it on the label...the label is legal.
JASO FA – original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
JASO FB – increased lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FA
JASO FC – lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.
JASO FD - same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.
Amsoil is JASO-FD rated.
Shindiawa One JASO-FD rated.
Motors will not blow if Amsoil recommends normal service at 100:1 if Amsoil states it on their label. I have no experience with the Saber 100:1 on a hard commercial level...but have seen an improvement with the Shin One 2 cycle oil versus their older mineral base 2cycle oil. Amsoil needs to state it on the label...the label is legal.
I have also been using amsoil saber pro mixed at 50-1 in my china 2-cycle generator which called for 40-1 mix. and have a nice light brown color to the spark plug, thats runs fine.
Last edited:
For what it is worth. I used to use HPS at 100 to 1 about 30 years ago unuil they quit selling it. It instantly gave my three wheeler and jet skis more power, quicker hole shot, never a fouled plug, low or no smoke. It did burn though if you got it on your skin. Now, after trying several different outboard motor oils (Penzoil full synthetic, Penzoil semi-synthetic, Johnson oil, Amsoil 50:1 oil) in my 130 HP Johnson, which tends to run poorly at lower speeds, I tried Amsoil 100:1 marine mixed at 80:1. Every engine complaint I had went away. It idles perfectly, runs low speed without missing, it's never run this good. I am sticking with it.
Last edited:
My chainsaws start easier and have far more power using Sabre at 80:1.I switched after doing a careful breakin with a petroleum oil at 40:1.I will continue using the amsoil at 80:1 and do an engine inspection later.I don't sell amsoil.
Originally Posted By: MrMeeks
My chainsaws start easier and have far more power using Sabre at 80:1.I switched after doing a careful breakin with a petroleum oil at 40:1.I will continue using the amsoil at 80:1 and do an engine inspection later.I don't sell amsoil.
Depends on your Saw I guess, personally I have too much money invested in my Husqvarnas to do anything but what they recommend.
Not saying that the Amsoil cant do it, but 100:1 sounds a bit iffy to me. I guess I'd Rather stick with 50:1 and feel better.
My chainsaws start easier and have far more power using Sabre at 80:1.I switched after doing a careful breakin with a petroleum oil at 40:1.I will continue using the amsoil at 80:1 and do an engine inspection later.I don't sell amsoil.
Depends on your Saw I guess, personally I have too much money invested in my Husqvarnas to do anything but what they recommend.
Not saying that the Amsoil cant do it, but 100:1 sounds a bit iffy to me. I guess I'd Rather stick with 50:1 and feel better.
- Status
