Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze

[prax]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah

See I disagree. How can you be effective if you are only draining less than 50% if using a radiator drain and a little more using engine block drains?

I guess if I am going to do a task, I'm going to do it right.

Knowing the capacity of the system and using straight coolant allows accurate maintenance.

You are guessing and hoping for a 50/50 level with 50/50 mix.

Take care, Bill


Toyota states you can do drain and refill. No flush necessary. I'm sure they know how to do it right.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
Bill,

It's no different than doing a drain & refill on the AT. However, you may not do that either I don't know.

How are you hoping for a 50% final mix when using a 50% mix? I don't get it. I start with 50% mix in system. I drain 50% of capacity. I fill with 50% mix. How can I not be left with 50% mix?


You will not have 100% Fresh/new coolant in your system.

If you drain and flush with distilled water to a point that you have fresh distilled water in the system, drain it and add 50% of the capacity with Straight fresh coolant and top off with distilled water then you'll have a fresh 50/50 mix of coolant and water.

With 50/50 mix, you'll never get all of the old stuff unless you flush with the mix.

Its my belief that with a coolant system, you'd want to get all the old coolant out.

I may be wrong, but I've never had a cooling problem in the many decades I've been owning and operating vehicles.

I've only owned 3 automatic vehicles in the last 30+ years. With every one but the current Subaru, I would disconnect the cooler line and flush all the old fluid every 60k.

The Subaru I'm just doing drain and fills but understand that I'm not trying for a percentage number. I'm just draining some of the old fluid out and getting fresh fluid/additives back in the system.

With Cooling systems (and esp with todays small systems) you need to get the old stuff out and a certain percentage mix in for protection.

If you are not caring about how much fresh coolant is going in the system, then 50/50 will work.

And I'm not even addressing the RIP OFF cost of 50/50 mix which I have a problem of.

Hopefully this makes some sense. I'm operating on very little sleep this week... (about 10 hours total for the week)

Take care, bill

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
And I'm not even addressing the RIP OFF cost of 50/50 mix which I have a problem of.
And that's the bottom line, premix = 1/2 water. Sorry, but if at all possible I will avoid paying for water from the coolant manufacturers, when I can buy distilled at Wally much less expensively and add it to full strength coolant.

And then there's all other reasons Bill mentioned, like not getting a 50% concentration (without much waste) when doing a distilled flush series.

Now I understand those that want to do a simple radiator drain and refill on a shorter interval, like a year. As long as your not doing a coolant switch, that would likely be a way around doing a flush series on a longer interval. I'd still look for full strength and distilled water to that with though.

As for Peak vs Zerex, so Zerex may be better, OK. But, I haven't seen any complaints against Peak from the FTC or whatever agency regulates such things. I haven't read of any failures of cooling systems specifically related to Peak Branded coolants. They have the standards that they meet on each coolant jug or the website listing for each coolant. And besides, Danica says they are good to go, so they must be OK, right?

 

[mechanicx]

While I don't completely agree with Bill that IF you open the block drains you won't get most all of the coolant out, it's not always practical or possible to open block drains.

I also agree with Bill that a proper coolant change requires removing most all of the old coolant.

I also agree with him that 50/50 is a rip off on 2 counts. First, it usually cost about 80% to 90%+ of full strength's price instead of a more reasonable 50%-60%. Now, how are you going to get all the old coolant out and arrive at a 50/50 mix with premix if you can't get to the block drains or don't have a coolant exchanger?

Assuming the radiator only drains half the capacity at best and you have even a very modest 8qt capacity how does the math work out with radiator drains and refills? 1gal=1/2, 2=1/4, 3=1/8, 4=1/16, 5=1/32. If my math is right, even with 5 gals flushed through you are still left with 1/4 qt of old coolant left in. So do we call it good now? You just used 5x as many gallons of coolant and created quite the mess. And what about all the time and effort spent doing 5 drains, refills, and waiting for the engine to circulate and bleed the coolant refills?

I should add with concentrate it opens up two options or maybe 3. You can flush the system with water with drain and refills-much cheaper and less wastes. Or you can install a flush T and quickly flush all the old out and just use one gal of concentrate.

 

[cos]

Drain 'n fills rule! Let the algebra do the work for you. The key is to do one every 1-2 yrs. Why bother with flushing and flushing chemicals and all the resultant waste water/coolant you end up with. How are you going to dispose of all that waste? Why obsess over getting out every little drop of old coolant every 3-5 yrs. When you drain 'n fill, aka "recharge", the system every 1-2 yrs you are replacing about 90% + of the original coolant after about three drain 'n fills. So you've achieved the same goal as the total flush method but with less hassle, less waste and done it w-a-y faster all for a measly $5 every 18 months.

 

[Stu_Rock]

Originally Posted By: ponderosaTX
If Old World Industries manufactures antifreeze, where is their manufacturing plant? If they manufacture their own antifreeze, why use CCI bottles?

I don't buy the "CCI bottle" argument. I've seen identical 1 gal bottles of degreaser that come from a Clorox plant. That blow-molding equipment is not unique to CCI.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: cos
Drain 'n fills rule! Let the algebra do the work for you. The key is to do one every 1-2 yrs. Why bother with flushing and flushing chemicals and all the resultant waste water/coolant you end up with. How are you going to dispose of all that waste? Why obsess over getting out every little drop of old coolant every 3-5 yrs. When you drain 'n fill, aka "recharge", the system every 1-2 yrs you are replacing about 90% + of the original coolant after about three drain 'n fills. So you've achieved the same goal as the total flush method but with less hassle, less waste and done it w-a-y faster all for a measly $5 every 18 months.



I don't get your argument. Repeated radiator drain and refills done consecutively or over 3-6 year time period with coolant (and even water) crerates much more total waste than flushing the block or draining the block once every 5 years. Plus you get most all of the old coolant out at once.

If you do 3 radiator drain and refills over 6 years even if you assume you get 2/3 replacement each time (very high), then you would still have almost 9% of the coolant 6 years old, 18% that is 4 years old etc. So if my math is right you would have a 1/3 of the coolant still needing to be changed. Radiator drain and refills make the most sense to me if you do about 4 or more consecutively. But back to my point you created at least twice as much waste and the time involved. Again, I gues radiator drain and refills are better than nothing.

 

[Mr Nice]

Quote:
Its my belief that with a coolant system, you'd want to get all the old coolant out.


Absolutely no harm having some old coolant mixed with new coolant. As for 50/50 being used for top off, just add regular water. If you keep having to top off, you got a problem.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Quote:
Its my belief that with a coolant system, you'd want to get all the old coolant out.


Absolutely no harm having some old coolant mixed with new coolant. As for 50/50 being used for top off, just add regular water. If you keep having to top off, you got a problem.


Well maybe not harm but certainly not ideal. It all depends on just how much of the old did you actually get out. But having up to 1/3 of the coolant 4 years old or more after doing 3 radiator drain and refills over 6 years doesn't seem very good for all the effort. I consider flushing with a T-flush and tap water a lesser of 2 evils with the tap water I have and especially Dexcool that works with many tap waters.

 

[benjamming]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Bill,

It's no different than doing a drain & refill on the AT. However, you may not do that either I don't know.

How are you hoping for a 50% final mix when using a 50% mix? I don't get it. I start with 50% mix in system. I drain 50% of capacity. I fill with 50% mix. How can I not be left with 50% mix?


You will not have 100% Fresh/new coolant in your system.

If you drain and flush with distilled water to a point that you have fresh distilled water in the system, drain it and add 50% of the capacity with Straight fresh coolant and top off with distilled water then you'll have a fresh 50/50 mix of coolant and water.

With 50/50 mix, you'll never get all of the old stuff unless you flush with the mix.

Its my belief that with a coolant system, you'd want to get all the old coolant out.

I may be wrong, but I've never had a cooling problem in the many decades I've been owning and operating vehicles.

I've only owned 3 automatic vehicles in the last 30+ years. With every one but the current Subaru, I would disconnect the cooler line and flush all the old fluid every 60k.

The Subaru I'm just doing drain and fills but understand that I'm not trying for a percentage number. I'm just draining some of the old fluid out and getting fresh fluid/additives back in the system.

With Cooling systems (and esp with todays small systems) you need to get the old stuff out and a certain percentage mix in for protection.

If you are not caring about how much fresh coolant is going in the system, then 50/50 will work.

And I'm not even addressing the RIP OFF cost of 50/50 mix which I have a problem of.

Hopefully this makes some sense. I'm operating on very little sleep this week... (about 10 hours total for the week)

Take care, bill


I never claimed that you will have fresh/new coolant 100%. I was merely addressing

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
You are guessing and hoping for a 50/50 level with 50/50 mix.


So what threw this sidebar discussion off was that you were only discussing completely replacing the coolant.

I certainly do agree, of course, that buying premix is paying a lot for purified water.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: benjamming

I never claimed that you will have fresh/new coolant 100%. I was merely addressing

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
You are guessing and hoping for a 50/50 level with 50/50 mix.


So what threw this sidebar discussion off was that you were only discussing completely replacing the coolant.

I certainly do agree, of course, that buying premix is paying a lot for purified water.


If I'm going to be messing with the cooling system / playing with replacing coolant then I'm going to do the job correct.

Replacing ALL the old and getting new coolant is the correct way (in my book) to do it.

And yes, the marketing wizards who came up with 50/50 got a bonus that year.

The best thing I've heard is someone mixing the 50/50 jug with 50 percent water.

Bottom line is if you get the old coolant out and replace it with really anything (ie all makes/models) coolant your system is going to be better off than the average vehicle.

For the owner who does this every 2-3 years they will be fine.

The folks who are changing their coolant (or doing a drain/refill with 50/50) every year are really wasting $$ and not getting any benefit. (again IMO)

Take care, Bill

 

[benjamming]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Bottom line is if you get the old coolant out and replace it with really anything (ie all makes/models) coolant your system is going to be better off than the average vehicle.


Yep, flushing or drain & refill will be better than most.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Bottom line is if you get the old coolant out and replace it with really anything (ie all makes/models) coolant your system is going to be better off than the average vehicle.

For the owner who does this every 2-3 years they will be fine.
+1 I'm on the same page with you on that advice/opinion. You've found and are using PGL, I've been using the LL AM/M. Perhaps next time I'll find PGL or it's clone PPL at Pep Boys.

Quote:
The best thing I've heard is someone mixing the 50/50 jug with 50 percent water.

I too read that as advice on the Volvo thread regarding doing a flush and what coolant to use. I was going to correct it, but sometimes you just have to let things go and hope common sense will prevail.

Quote:
And yes, the marketing wizards who came up with 50/50 got a bonus that year
+1 A nice profit for convenience.