Burning oil - bad rings or valve seals?

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Originally Posted By: VolvoBruce
Thanks, guys.

Sorry to say, I got kinda lousy test results.
The good news is they were pretty even, the bad news is they were low, just below or at the minimum spec of 135 psi. 'Standard' is 184 psi, with max 28 psi variation between cylinders.

Dry, the cylinders were between 125-135 psi.
Wet, between 155-180. I wrote it all down and tossed the paper in the car, I'm done for the night.

Hey, it drives great, I just have to keep topping up the oil!
Takes about a qt per 1000 miles.



I'm tellin ya, just lower your OCI's to 3000 or 3500 with arx cycles, or MMO, and PYB and you'll be good. I also thought my first arx with super-tech was great.
 
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Hey, it drives great, I just have to keep topping up the oil!


If it's not showing up on the plugs, then I'd say most of it is going out through the PCV due to the increased throughput in the crankcase. Make a long big(ger) hose to the manifold side of the PCV system. Just make it too hard for the heavy stuff to reach there. Catch cans have the disadvantage of requiring emptying periodically. If you configure the hose right, it's maintenance free.
 
yeah -_-

thankfully rwd L4s are cake to work on! while i was at it a replaced the carb with a low mileage rebuilt one i found at the junkyard and torqued everything to manual specs. she runs as smooth as butter now!
 
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My very very bad.
I just redid the compression test.

First time, forgot to hold the throttle open.

Now:
200-190-187-180, dry.

Sorry for posting it wrong earlier.
 
leave the car for a couple of days then try to start it. if it's hard to start and then a large puff of smoke comes out when you do then it's the valve seals.
 
Originally Posted By: VolvoBruce
My very very bad.
I just redid the compression test.

First time, forgot to hold the throttle open.

Now:
200-190-187-180, dry.

Sorry for posting it wrong earlier.


We bought a 1990 Honda Civic LX with the 1.6L 4 cylinder SOHC engine. Reading your experience brought back memories of excellent fuel economy and a real dog climbing steep hills with 4 people aboard. Nice car with panoramic view of the road.

We had the Civic in the family for 14 years. It was traded in in 2004 towards a used Dodge Caravan. It had 160,000 miles and still got 40 mpg highway.

Oil usage was its Achilles heel. Roughly 1 qt every 1000 miles just like you said. I went to 10W-40 "Certified" from Sam's Club and oil usage went lower to about 1 qt 1500 miles. As I recall, the oil usage was upsetting because the engine was so small. Compression was good just as you reported. It was the valve guides that were worn. The oil delivery in that gallery is a little less than generous and any hiccups in the OCI cycle creates sludge and causes guides to run hot and dry. To sum it up, the engine's performance remains decent and the gas mileage continues to impress but the oil usage was very high for the size motor: valve guides all the way. The SOHC oil delivery was to the camshaft which leaves the valve guides to either side of the SOHC and they get whatever runs off. Put a little sludge in there and you have guides running hot and dry.

Here is what I did: 1) keep the oil topped off to the extent of 1/2 to 3/4 quart over and never let it get to "add". 2)ignore the 5W-30 Honda recommendation which is for a new car or an engine without excessive wear. Go to a 10W-40. When you are adding a quart every 1000-1500 miles, you can go further on the OCI cycle but don't exceed 5000 miles. I stayed with dino oil because the oil usage cost precludes a synthetic and the oil looked pretty clean on the dipstick even at 4000 miles. 3) Run 16 oz of Rislone (small sump and 1 qt is a lot for that little 4-banger) with each OCI and put in the other 16oz the second time you top off at about 2000-2500 miles. The engine will remain very clean and the oil will continue to reach those guides.

Another idea which may help but wasn't available when I was extending the useful life of our 1990 Civic 1.6L SOHC: add a can of LubroMoly MoS2 Engine Oil Additive. It will help reduce the excessive valve guide clearance because it will fill in all the metal roughness and lubricate the moving parts better than an oil wedge. You may want to replenish the MoS2 particles every OCI. You only need half of the 300ml can each time you add it (small motor!) so you will get 2 OCI's out of each can. I paid a very, very reasonable $4.29 at NAPA and the product does reduce internal engine friction.

I put LubroMoly (about 180ml) in my wife's 2.5L 2008 Nissan Sentra SER and didn't tell her. She came back from visiting the grandchildren and says "I don't know what was with my car today but it felt real peppy. Did you put something in the fuel?"
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When you use oil above 10W-30, "Energy Conserving" (friction modifiers like Molybdenum Disulfide) are not required to be put in the oil. My experience with the added LubroMoly is for real. My wife's car's oil is 5W-30 Mobil 1 "Energy Conserving" and SHE still noticed a difference and is generally not that aware of changes in her car.
 
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Isn't the leak down tester made to tell if it is the rings or valves?

I have only done it a couple of times with a experenced mech showing me but I could hear if the air was leaking from the crankcase or the air intake. This was on older aircraft piston engines.

Can anyone confirm?

On edit: maybe that was for burnt valves and not valve seals.
 
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Leakdown will tell you about valves or rings. It will not tell you about valve stem seals or oil control rings. A compression test will tell you about ring seal only.
 
Thanks, OilGuy2. Good to hear a similar tale of woe from someone with a similar engine. If the problem is valve guides I think that's a much bigger job than replacing the valve seals.

So I especially appreciate the tip re. LubroMoly MoS2.
 
OilGuy2, how did you determine it was bad valve guides?
Not valve stem seals?
Did someone take the head apart?
Or a process of elimination?
 
Does the HX use the same PCV valve as the EX ?
If so, I still have a new Purolaor PCV valve (PV1057M) never used that I could send you for free.

maybe that might help.
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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
...If it's not showing up on the plugs, then I'd say most of it is going out through the PCV due to the increased throughput in the crankcase. Make a long big(ger) hose to the manifold side of the PCV system. Just make it too hard for the heavy stuff to reach there. Catch cans have the disadvantage of requiring emptying periodically. If you configure the hose right, it's maintenance free.


Now there's a thought. A bit of a pita to do but not nearly as big a job as changing all the stem seals. My guess is that the hose should not have a dip where oil could pool? So it should be one big long up + down arc, right?

PCV was changed late last summer so that shouldn't be an issue.
 
New member here.. looks like i finally found the right place. Im having similar issues with my 93 civic Dx 1.5 16valve. Its a work driver/winter car i picked up for cheap about a month ago so i dont want to dump a bunch of $ into it. has 141k on it, im in the same boat trying to figure out whether im burning oil from the rings or valve guides/seals. Changed the oil (10-30 Dino), PCV valve, plugs (all carbonized badly), ran seafoam through the gas,oil, and vacum lines, lucas oil treatment. Im burning about 1-1.25 quarts of oil every tank (300 miles). heres my symptoms

smokes for about 10-20 seconds on startup
smokes a little normal driving but not major
at 4,000rpm blows a cloud
Did compression test at 4 cranks 180-190psi each cylinder (dry test)

im leaning torwards guides or seals due to the compression test results

Anyone know of a decent oil mix remedy to cut oil consumption?

Im new here and assuming OCI is oil change frequency? and Joel what is PYB? lol

thanks for any help
Brett
 
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