Yellow metal safe gear oil

Hi, Cronk.
Here's what I've picked up with my experience with an MF35. It's very similar to your 9N.
I have found that the 134D oil is a universal Trans/Diff/Hydro(TDH) oil also known as Hytrans, Permatran, etc.
But it has a viscosity roughly equal to a 10w20 engine oil, but that grade doesn't exist.
It's way too thin for the older machines and their somewhat worn hydro pumps. Works great in winter cold for moving snow, but the pumps don't perform well in summer heat with it. It is yellow metal safe.
I used it and that was my experience.
I switched to the Dentax that you mentioned. Great for the summer, but in the winter I need to let it warm up a bit and then it's ok.
Nowadays, the folks at ytmag report that 15w40 engine oil, makes a good all season alternative. Thin enough for the pump to easily pump it in winter, but thick enough for the pump to keep working well in the summer.
Apparently, a lot of people have been using it in these old machines with no trouble. It's yellow metal safe. Don't forget that engines use bearings that have copper in them.
One guy said he puts in the 80w90 GL1 and for the winter and added a bit of 10w30 motor oil to thin it just a touch and it works well all year.
I posted about this here to, and I think I'll drain out 1 gallon and add some 10w30, rather than dump it all for 15w40.
Hope this helps.
 
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
All modern GL-5 oils are safe for use with yellow metals. GL4 is rather out dated and is most often encountered as lube for manual transmissions.


Beg to differ. Explore the Mercedes Operating Fluids site:
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolistenmain.php?session_id=&navigation_path=&language_id=1
and pages 231.1,2,3; 235.4,8,11 in particular.
For current production (not "outdated") vehicles they specify GL5 fluids for diffs and portal boxes but GL4 fluids for synchromesh transmissions. Heavy truck transmissions in European trucks are usually synchro.
Furthermore your quote contains an internal contradiction. Are manual transmissions obsolete, and can you think of any other place in a vehicle that contains yellow metals?
Having gotten on my high horse, I admit that I used GL5 gear oil in Land Cruiser synchro transmissions for 4 decades (one I still have since new is a '79) without problems. But the 8spd with integral double low range/lockable center diff transmission in my U500 is ~$30,000 to replace. And not exactly cheap to rebuild. So I plan on using Delvac Synth. Trans Fluid or Redline MT90.

Charlie
 
I have never had a dual rated product ever cause a problem in my life. I have to admit though that I have been useing mostly synthetics since 1988 and only a couple times did I have to run dino gear lube. I always looked for dual rating on dino oils and neverhad a problem. Even on old Landrovers and such that still called for GL4 inthe rear end. So if you stick with Dual rated products it will always have the Sulfar buffered so it will not attack the yellow metals. The high end GL4's from Redline or Schaffer's or Swepco will also not disapoint. In this application I would definately be looking at Schaffer's as my first choice.
 
Quote:
But it has a viscosity roughly equal to a 10w20 engine oil, but that grade doesn't exist.


Sure it does. 10W is a 20 weight motor oil. It can't be called a 20 weight due to not having a >2.6HTHS. Every HDEO line carries this. Delo, PZ, you name it.


Anything carrying the MT rating is yellow metal safe. The difference will be visc that may effect shifting in some transmissions.

I use a GL3 Mopar synthetic. It's the only GL3 lube that I can find anywhere.
 
Another very good widely available GL4 fluid is Mobil Delvac Synthetic Transmission Fluid 50
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/P...on_Fluid_50.asp
About a 5W50 with pour point -45 C. but 17.5 cSt@100C.
Read
http://www.mobil.com/usa-english/lubes/p...-90_80w-140.asp
"Not recommended for transmissions where GL4 fluids are specified" - this is a GL5/MT1 fluid; evidently XM doesn't want to commit that it is entirely safe for all transmissions even though it's MT1. I'm under the impression that MT1 is a spec for US type mostly nonsynchronized transmissions like Roadrangers. Anyone know what the splitter and range gear synchros are made of on a Roadranger?

Charlie
 
Delo ESI is the sleeper gear oil of all times, it is great stuff. Probably it is equal or better than most syns and costs way way less.
 
I'm intrigued by the Delo ESI, the website states
"inorganic borate compounds do no react with metal"
If I'm reading this correctly this is still an EP gear lube, but it doesn't contain the sulfur compounds that damage the yellow metals.
I'm not a chemical engineer, but it seems like this lube would be ideal for my application.

And yes Gary, since this tractor takes 5 gallons of lube, a low to medium cost is a must. I can't justify spending $300 in gear oil!
 
Last edited:
Supertech Synthetic Blend 75W90 GL-5

11-16-09004.jpg



Typical Properties

Specific Gravity @ 60 °F ------ 0.8846
API Gravity -------------------- 28.46
Viscosity @ 100°C - cST -------- 16.45
Viscosity @ 40°C - cST -------- 118.6
Viscosity Index ------------------ 150
ASTM Color ----------------------- 3.0
 
Lone Ranger,

A 75w90 product was exactly what I was thinking of to meet the year round viscosity problems that old farmer describes AND address the yellow metal safe needs.

But, as Gary alludes about price point, the OP needs to buy 5 gallons of the stuff. These tractor trannys are known to get moisture condensation big time and expensive fluid will not overcome this, meaning frequent changes (1 -3 years?).

But the yellow metal safe controversy prevails. Correct me, but I think the M1 mentioned above is MT 1, yet e-mails from the company say NOT to use it for GL-4 applications. There are many other threads that imply "most" companies now use "non active" sulfer...yellow metal safe...Shaefers and Valvoline claim this at their sites.

I don't blame these guys for being cautious. I had an Oliver tranny go belly up after a trusted dealer recommended the wrong fluid to me to replace their original/obsolete fluid.
 
Hmmmm...this stuff is bugging me.

Here, Molakule implies that regardless of the yellow metal safety, GL 5 lube additives are intended for differential gears, not manual tranny gears:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1231182#Post1231182

Another issue with these old tractors is that many have worn hydraulic pumps and if this issue was addressed, maybe the Ford/New Holland recommendation of the "hytran" type 134 fluid would stand.
 
Clearances in older equipment is exactly the issue with the hytran/134D oils.
They are just too thin for these old machines when they get hot.
I think they would be fine if everything was rebuilt with tighter clearances.
The way I see it is 80w90 from mildly cold temps to hot summer, or 15w40 engine oil that many are using sucessfully all year.
The hytran for newer, tighter machines, or rebuilt old ones.
 
The Supertech 75W90 is $4.97/qt at Wal Mart. I've seen a number of 80W90's with lower cSt @ 100C numbers than the 16.45 that Supertech claims for their 75W90.
 
I was just at Walmart and they had gallon jugs of Supertech 80w90 GL5. It said on the back of the container that it "protects against heat and corrosion of brass and copper".
I'm not sure what their formula is regarding sulfur, it's priced at $11 per gallon. This is for the regular dino, not the syn blend.
Doitmyself nailed it, these tractors often need the fluid changed every few years due to condensation. $55 for 5 gallons of fluid is fine every few years. Most people wouldn't want to flush 3 or 4 hundred dollars in fluid every 2-3 years.
Also any decent dino lube far exceeds the original fluid available in 1940.
I havn't bought anything yet, the tractor will be apart for a while getting an engine rebuild. I would like to learn more about the Supertech formula, I'm not having much luck finding any info on it though.
I am torn between Shell Dentax, Delo ESI, and the Supertech.
The only fluid I can easily find locally is the supertech, so I hope I can learn more about it.
 
Supertech is made by Warren Performance Products. A WPP rep replied to an email inquiry I made and said Supertech is the same formulation as their MAG1 brand. They private label it for Wal Mart under the Supertech name.

Here is info on the 80W90 and the 85W140:

http://www.wd-wpp.com/specsheet/specshee002.pdf

http://216.81.211.106/MSDSweb/0000A682.pdf

Here is link to info sheets on all their lubricants:

http://www.wd-wpp.com/products.html#Lubricants

MSDS search engine:

http://www.wd-wpp.com/msds.php
 
Originally Posted By: edhackett
The Delo Gear Lube is a great choice if you can find it locally. The Chevron distributor should have it, as will many truck stops.

I've used it extensively in any application calling for an 80W-90 lube, including GL1.

http://www.chevrondelo.com/en/products/transmissionfluidgearoil/default.asp

Ed


I second this recommendation. Just out of curiosity what kind of tractor is it? If it's 69 years old it's gasoline, right?

Charlie
 
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